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MiltonMack21

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« #90 : August 24, 2007, 08:25:26 AM »

FRG, exactly. They have had the draft picks and those are the best they could come up with. Bust, bust, not exactly what you want from the 5th pick, can't tackle, has to stay in and block because of not being able to properly pick/coach o-line, dud, Don't know yet, looks like a bust and a Harry freaking Houdini.


dalbuc

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« #91 : August 24, 2007, 08:26:53 AM »

Exactly Bucfan...the down times were going to be here no matter what.  Gru/Allen have had to deal with them instead of McKay.

Except 2005 shows that "downtimes" were not an inevitability.

What also says "not inevitable" are the defensive rankings of 5-5-1-14 since 2002. That "aging" unit didn't age so badly that it was impossible to win. What made winning tough was an offense that totally blew chunks, free agent picks ups that sucked and draft picks that flopped and/or under performed on that side of the ball. Toss in games with mind bendingly bad leadership (JAX 2003 or NYG 2006) and a huge spike in penalties and now we have what was "inevitable" but it looks like a lot more like choices and leadership contributing to the problems.

I've never seen such Calvinist football fans - as if there is no coach that could have done better, or even frankly some that would have done worse. What we are and have become isn't random fate. The win in 2002 wasn't pre-ordained and neither was the collapse since then.

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.

olafberserker

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« #92 : August 24, 2007, 08:48:14 AM »

BS.  You don't trade away 7 1st and 2nd round picks and max the cap out to a point that you have to release players just to get under the cap so you don't get fined and not have a drop off in talent.  That is inevitable.  Sure they've made some poor choices.  But there's a laundry list of poor choices that were made in the McKay/Dungy years, however they had a foundation on the defensive side of the ball (Lynch, Brooks, and Sapp) and a full allotment of picks/salary cap space to deal with.  That makes a difference period.  I can't speak for others, but I haven't nor will I absolve Gru/Allen from blame, but I'm also not going to look at it in a vacuum and ignore the factors that they did not have control over which forced their hand in some instances and reduced their options in others.  Clayton over Steven Jackson was, is, and in my opinion will always be a mistake, but that wasn't the defining moment in this teams'/franchises' fall.

Feel Real Good

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« #93 : August 24, 2007, 08:54:47 AM »

Clayton over Steven Jackson was, is, and in my opinion will always be a mistake, but that wasn't the defining moment in this teams'/franchises' fall.
No, it's just another reason the team hasn't got back up.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

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« #94 : August 24, 2007, 08:59:09 AM »

LOL, of course if McKay didn't let Dunn walk it wouldn't matter.  If McKay/Dungy could of just picked one decent WR we would have had something for Gru to work with when he got here it wouldn't matter.

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« #95 : August 24, 2007, 09:08:18 AM »

LOL, of course if McKay didn't let Dunn walk it wouldn't matter. If McKay/Dungy could of just picked one decent WR we would have had something for Gru to work with when he got here it wouldn't matter.
That's the hand he was dealt. Do you think Marty Schottenheimer was doing jumping jacks over inheriting the Ryan Leaf disaster when he took the San Diego job? Was Bill Belichick fired up about Andy Katzenmoyer? Was Andy Reid happy his predecessor used a 1st on Jon Harris? Of course not. But all had resources to try and fix those things and they did. Like it or not when Gruden ran McKay out of town, he essentially said I'll bring in my guy who won't hold me back. "You ain't seen nothing yet." It's time to show he can make moves better than McKay, not just less sucky.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

flyinbuc

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« #96 : August 24, 2007, 09:09:04 AM »

Exactly Bucfan...the down times were going to be here no matter what. Gru/Allen have had to deal with them instead of McKay.
That's fine but the problem is they picked Michael Clayton, Marquis Cooper, Cadillac Williams, Barrett Ruud, Alex Smith, Chris Colmer, Davin Joseph, Jeremy Trueblood, and Maurice Stovall to lead us back.

Or the eval could be .. ROY, bust, ROY, Starting Mike LB, Starting TE, Injured, Future PB, Starting RT, Poss Starting WR.

olafberserker

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« #97 : August 24, 2007, 09:19:40 AM »

Key pharse was they had resources.  Gru/Allen were at the very least very limited in resources up until 3 years ago.  They've had some opportunity to lay a foundation and have their QB as well.  Let see how this season pans out.

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« #98 : August 24, 2007, 09:37:10 AM »

Exactly Bucfan...the down times were going to be here no matter what. Gru/Allen have had to deal with them instead of McKay.
That's fine but the problem is they picked Michael Clayton, Marquis Cooper, Cadillac Williams, Barrett Ruud, Alex Smith, Chris Colmer, Davin Joseph, Jeremy Trueblood, and Maurice Stovall to lead us back.

Or the eval could be .. ROY, bust, ROY, Starting Mike LB, Starting TE, Injured, Future PB, Starting RT, Poss Starting WR.
Since when is being a starter a ringing endorsement of talent? Kenyatta Walker was a 6 year starter. Cosey Coleman was a starter too. So was Jamie Duncan. And your first so-called ROY through 3 seasons has 106 yards and 2 TDs more than Jacquez Green. Your actual ROY had 1186 fewer yards and 8 fewer TDs in 2006 than another running back selected 60 spots lower in the same draft. At best only Joseph will ever have a chance at being top 15 at his position. That's not winning football.

Key pharse was they had resources. Gru/Allen were at the very least very limited in resources up until 3 years ago. They've had some opportunity to lay a foundation and have their QB as well. Let see how this season pans out.
They've had 9 first day draft picks with at least one season under their belts. Two are out of the league already.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

dalbuc

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« #99 : August 24, 2007, 09:41:46 AM »

BS.  You don't trade away 7 1st and 2nd round picks and max the cap out to a point that you have to release players just to get under the cap so you don't get fined and not have a drop off in talent.  That is inevitable.

Yawn, the defense remained outstanding and an offense that had a bunch of high round draft picks and, yes, expensive FA's didn't perform. None of the  cap hell/no draft pick excuses make up for the huge hop in yellow hankies and just plain bad game planning.  We had fewer picks but what have we done with those picks? Well, not much. We had fewer FA dollars but what have we bought with those dollars? Diddly and squat. You assume that given more picks and more dollars we'd be smarter but you've got zippo evidence for that.

No matter how you slice it the offense has more talent, or should, then when Shula was here and it isn't really any better.

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.

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« #100 : August 24, 2007, 11:50:31 AM »

Its a good thing that the Tampa fans really show class and have respect when talking about their players. I agree that Clayton is not playing well but to call him all sorts of names and disrespect him like that is not okay

olafberserker

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« #101 : August 24, 2007, 12:12:26 PM »

Its a good thing that the Tampa fans really show class and have respect when talking about their players. I agree that Clayton is not playing well but to call him all sorts of names and disrespect him like that is not okay

Sorry Michael, I don't think anyone meant for it to be personal.  Can you do us a favor and hold onto a few more balls this year?  We need you especially with this latest Boston development.

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« #102 : August 24, 2007, 12:13:07 PM »

Clayton's a bust.  Till he proves otherwise.


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