If Gruden goes.. does Allen get the ax as well?

[keeponbucn]

Why speculate? Gruden isn't going to be fired this year. But since you brought it up, if this team is in a great postion to hire somebody, who would they hire? Lets hear some names.

People who want Gruden gone don't have a clue about this. A ton of people say fire him but NEVER come with any LOGICAL replacements. It's idiocy.....

[bucpimpin]

Ok.. I am not an advocate of firing Gruden, but I do see a lot of things I dont like.
It looks to me like the team has grown tired of his tirades on the sidelines as well as in practice  and have grown unresponsive.

I also do not like the way his drafts have panned out.

It looks like also that he is loyal to a fault (like Dungy was in some instances) by not firing
Rich Bisaccia, Bill Muir, and Paul Hackett. All of whom I feel are suspect coaches.  Why has Gruden been unable to lure good quality coaches to replace the great ones we have lost? Im quite sure Joe Barry will be gone this year and I have a huge feeling Monte will call it quits unless Gruden gets the ax. If this happens Monte may take the reigns for a year or two.

I found myself wanting to kick a hole in my plasma after watching all the 3rd and 10, 13, 15 check down passes to Pittman. Why must we give up on 3rd and long every time? If its Grads fault, its only because he has been taught to play it safe to a point where he has no nads right now.

I truly believe Gradkowski is the Future and will be a star in this league.

If Gruden is fired this year, Does Allen go with him? Who would be candidates to replace Allen and Gruden? The team would be in great position for a front office / coaching staff to take over. Plenty of cap $$ and a young team with a few draft picks.

[Itchalot]

Why speculate?  Gruden isn't going to be fired this year. But since you brought it up, if this team is in a great postion to hire somebody, who would they hire?   Lets hear some names.

[keeponbucn]

It's not happening so why talk about it? Why on earth would the owners fire the same people who have pulled the franchise out of the gutter in terms of the salary cap?

If you're wanting to kick a hole in your TV then I've got nothing for you. THe check-down passes suck donkey balls but it comes with the turf. Grads isn't going to jack it up in double coverage and if he did you all would be blasting him. It's a no win situation for anyone in the Bucs organization right now.

It's easy to beat down people down when things aren't going well. What you have to do as fans is look at the positives, as hard as that is, and know this team will be one to deal with in the next couple of years. I'll be here and hope that Gruden and CO are as well.

[bradentonian]

Why speculate? Gruden isn't going to be fired this year. But since you brought it up, if this team is in a great postion to hire somebody, who would they hire? Lets hear some names.

People who want Gruden gone don't have a clue about this. A ton of people say fire him but NEVER come with any LOGICAL replacements. It's idiocy.....

Damn, that's a sweet avatar.  Back to the topic, just because nobody has a list of names at this point in the season doesn't mean the proper candidates don't exist.  Find me evidence of one Saints fan that was calling for Sean Payton this time last year...  and good luck trying.  I'm not saying Gruden needs to be replaced, but I don't agree with the "Okay, well name me someone better" argument.

[bucpimpin]

Im definately not calling for his head.. However from what I see and read, it looks as if Gruden is getting 0 effort from his players, 0 effort from his coaches. This is not the mark of a leader. (I know he is gone and wont be back) but even when Dungy had some down years there was always the depth from the drafts and the appearance of loyalty and hard work from the coaches and players. I personally feel that players dont respect him, and wont go to war for him.

I think he has a great offensive mind and I hope he turns it around. But I see our team at least 3 years away from contending again and I dont think he has that long. So from a ownership perspective.. Why not a change at the end of the season?

[DanTurksGhost]

Neither are leaving, so perhaps you may want to save this for next year.

[SamoaJoeBucFan]

I agree, I want him gone, but at the same time, I can't think of anyone else to fill the void.  To answer the question, if Gruden was fired, Allen would stay.  Allen is not coaching this team, and he has done some great things with the cap.  Let's see where we're at when this season ends and we'll talk about Gruden's job.  IMO he's safe until after next year.  If we experience another season like this, he may be gone.

[mjs020294]

I would hope Allen would stay in Tampa, but if Gruden was the head coach elsewhere Allen might eventually follow him.

[bucDsystem]

i don't think allen is gone necessarily unless he chooses[ not certain about contractual ties]... however if there is a " need" to change coaches

the only retread coach i'd like to see is mike shanahan if we could pry him loose from denver

[bucpimpin]

mike shanahan.. I like that guy but we'd lose an awful lot to get that guy.

[Boid Fink]

God.

I am all for telling it like it is.

But this thread is a bit much.

Here is something that is truth:  Gruden/Allen are not going anywhere.

How can you want to fire a coach that has done so much for the team, and your city?  He did put them on the map with a Lombardi, and he won you a South banner last year with a team that was "basement" stuff.

And Allen has wrestled with a cap-demon and come away ready to fire on all cylinders.  He is a nice GM, he has brought the money situation under control, and removed a non-factor and his dead weight contract.

They stay, as does Kiffin.  It isn't Kiffins fault that his tools are getting old.  His mind isn't losing an edge, but his players athletic skills are diminishing, no question.  They have all the heart, but none of the body left.  Oh well, time to rebuild another Tampa 2 with better tools.  I think close to 30 mill can buy that.

The offense is very young, and for a rookie right tackle, a rookie right guard, a rookie QB, a second year running back, a second year tight end to all get into rythmn so quickly would be a dream, but as of now, it is a nightmare, but they have all shown they deserve to be in the NFL.

Fire Gruden?  Gimme a damned break.  How about we fire Simeon and Brooks instead...THEY are the ones stinking it up right now. (and the two meatbags we call safeties).

[bucDsystem]

mike shanahan.. I like that guy but we'd lose an awful lot to get that guy.

maybe not so much[ excluding salary]... from what i can see his contract is complete in 2008

if we "entertain" the prevailing though of keeping gruden through 2007 although his contract too ends in 2008 maybe we can make a trade of sorts???

[bucpimpin]

God.

I am all for telling it like it is.

But this thread is a bit much.

Here is something that is truth: Gruden/Allen are not going anywhere.

How can you want to fire a coach that has done so much for the team, and your city? He did put them on the map with a Lombardi, and he won you a South banner last year with a team that was "basement" stuff.

And Allen has wrestled with a cap-demon and come away ready to fire on all cylinders. He is a nice GM, he has brought the money situation under control, and removed a non-factor and his dead weight contract.

They stay, as does Kiffin. It isn't Kiffins fault that his tools are getting old. His mind isn't losing an edge, but his players athletic skills are diminishing, no question. They have all the heart, but none of the body left. Oh well, time to rebuild another Tampa 2 with better tools. I think close to 30 mill can buy that.

The offense is very young, and for a rookie right tackle, a rookie right guard, a rookie QB, a second year running back, a second year tight end to all get into rythmn so quickly would be a dream, but as of now, it is a nightmare, but they have all shown they deserve to be in the NFL.

Fire Gruden? Gimme a damned break. How about we fire Simeon and Brooks instead...THEY are the ones stinking it up right now. (and the two meatbags we call safeties).

Boid, easy man... nobody wants Gruden fired. Im talking about the fact IMO that he has lost his team. And im not talking just about our aging veterans.

.. I like Gruden man.. but to say he has done so much for this city ect.. ect.. is wrong. This team was poised to win a championship. He was the right coach at the right time and his change of pace style was just what the Doctor ordered.  But this team needs an overhaul this off season and I think he is stubborn enough to not can some coaches that are subpar.  Also I think if the Glazers want to make a move isnt the timing this offseason ideal?

I say hell no to buying free agents this off season. The available free agents arent worth the money. Stock pile some draft picks via some trades. If possible I know we can get at least a 3rd for BK and maybe a 4-6 for Simeon. Let the players progress 1 more year and then fill the voids through Free Agency in 08..

You say Kiffen isnt losing an edge? I tell you this, he could be. When he looks around him his only boy remaining is Barry, and he is a goner after this year. Kiffen is getting up there in age and could be ready to ride off into the sunset.

To answer the question, if Gruden was fired, Allen would stay. 

And you're basing this on

Let's not forget that Allen was hand chosen by Gruden.... not the other way around.