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karen anderson

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#30 : November 06, 2006, 11:46:37 PM

I could not have said it better myself. For you cross readers this is known as losing the locker room.

bucs8ball

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#31 : November 06, 2006, 11:59:01 PM

We could easily take some cues from the Raiders in that department. They've done real well since Chucky/Allen left.

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#32 : November 07, 2006, 12:01:06 AM

Biod--isn't Gruden responsible for the guys he's got? And the ones he puts on the field? Not to mention the game plan?

He is responsible for getting Galloway.  For getting Caddy.  For getting Davin and Blood.  For getting Smith.  For (ahem) getting Grads (not sold on this one yet, but I am not gonna bash him anymore, these games are on the defense).  For getting rid of McFarland, and bringing in a GM that got the money under control, got us some extra push on day one (draft).

Now, the offense is young, I get that.  I hate losing, we all know this.  I am willing to call this season sucky, because it is.  But next year, it won't be so bad.  Thanks to Gruden and Allen, and experience.

Is Gruden responsible for getting you a Lombardi to brag on?  Yup.  

So stop complaining on the coach, there is no coach that can help this team any better.  The guy is young, getting smarter, learning by taking a beating, and if the Bucs let him go, they will be dumbasses for doing so.

Just my opinion, and yeah, I question Grudens play calling.  But I never sent him out to sea to die either.  

Who is better than Gruden?  You can't be serious with ANY of the names you mention, unless it is Charlie Weiss, and he isn't coming here, nor do I want him anyway.  We are at square one, no need to jump back next year to square one again.




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#33 : November 07, 2006, 12:10:37 AM

That man is a good coach, I am sick of y'all bashing him when the players are at fault. A coach can ask the team to do, but the players have to do it.

Period.

Gruden is still shackled by a poor O-line (improving, but still poor), one legit playmaking wideout, and a running back who can't catct despite being in a WCO.



It is about skill level, and Clayton doesn't have it. He just can't seperate on a regular, and Becht is not useable except for blocking, and the O-line is not getting it done (but they will).

Boid, with all due respect, this is the team that Gruden built. On what are you basing your case that he is a good coach. If "his" players aren't performing for him than that is just another sign that he isn't getting it done. Who's to blame for that?

DBuc

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#34 : November 07, 2006, 12:13:34 AM

Actually, there is no evidence that the locker room is lost...Unlike Cincinnati,  Dallas, Atlanta and bunch of other teams...we don't players screaming to the media after every loss or play call they don't like...The guys are playing hard...The reasons we are struggling are well documented...The fact that none of you are in the locker room, none are on the sidelines...none of you have a personal relationship with the players...shows that you are making assumptions about things you know nothing about.  We had our third string corner (with Bolden and Kelly out) out there, our last resort guard out there, a defensive end we just picked up off waivers out there...This is not a team at full strength or that good right now...Oh yeah, and a rookie quarterback, right guard and right tackle...

It cracks me up that everytime a team loses or plays poorly...some fans think it must be due to lack of effort or they are tuning out there coach...Please, for the sake of the credibility of this board...stop making assumptions about things you don't know...Have any of you guys actually played sports?  Did you ever lose a game that you actually gave your all in?  It is possible...it is called character and it is called professionalism...which I think we have a lot of on this team...I am sure the guys are frustrated that they are losing (they better be, otherwise you don't want them here)...and that is okay...But to make an assumption that they are not giving their all while you are sitting on your couch is just insane...


Boid Fink

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#35 : November 07, 2006, 12:15:22 AM

That man is a good coach, I am sick of y'all bashing him when the players are at fault. A coach can ask the team to do, but the players have to do it.

Period.

Gruden is still shackled by a poor O-line (improving, but still poor), one legit playmaking wideout, and a running back who can't catct despite being in a WCO.



It is about skill level, and Clayton doesn't have it. He just can't seperate on a regular, and Becht is not useable except for blocking, and the O-line is not getting it done (but they will).

Boid, with all due respect, this is the team that Gruden built. On what are you basing your case that he is a good coach. If "his" players aren't performing for him than that is just another sign that he isn't getting it done. Who's to blame for that?

I am not willing to get into the dynamics.

Gruden is part responsible.  He is a leader.  A bringer of talent.

Who exactly brought in the defense?  Brooks, Lynch, Sapp, Barber, Kelly, Quarles, etc...

It is a two headed sword man.

One hand DUngy did....

On the other hand, Gruden did...

Etc...

So on...

Gruden got the Lombardi.

He did make mods to a team that was about ready to get over the hump.

He is responsible for some great seasons as a Raider and a Buc.

Gruden built this team, but he isn't the one taking bad angles, dropping key passes, fumbling away easy pitches, making bad throws.

At some point, the offense will click, or it won't.  Who knows?  But I am willing to see what youngsters will do once they hit stride together under one vision.

What other coach is going to take what the Bucs have, and suddenly turn it around?

I thought so.


bucpimpin

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#36 : November 07, 2006, 12:19:12 AM

That man is a good coach, I am sick of y'all bashing him when the players are at fault. A coach can ask the team to do, but the players have to do it.

Period.

Gruden is still shackled by a poor O-line (improving, but still poor), one legit playmaking wideout, and a running back who can't catct despite being in a WCO.



It is about skill level, and Clayton doesn't have it. He just can't seperate on a regular, and Becht is not useable except for blocking, and the O-line is not getting it done (but they will).

Boid, with all due respect, this is the team that Gruden built. On what are you basing your case that he is a good coach. If "his" players aren't performing for him than that is just another sign that he isn't getting it done. Who's to blame for that?

I am not willing to get into the dynamics.

Gruden is part responsible.  He is a leader.  A bringer of talent.

Who exactly brought in the defense?  Brooks, Lynch, Sapp, Barber, Kelly, Quarles, etc...

It is a two headed sword man.

One hand DUngy did....

On the other hand, Gruden did...

Etc...

So on...

Gruden got the Lombardi.

He did make mods to a team that was about ready to get over the hump.

He is responsible for some great seasons as a Raider and a Buc.

Gruden built this team, but he isn't the one taking bad angles, dropping key passes, fumbling away easy pitches, making bad throws.

At some point, the offense will click, or it won't.  Who knows?  But I am willing to see what youngsters will do once they hit stride together under one vision.

What other coach is going to take what the Bucs have, and suddenly turn it around?

I thought so.

STEVE SPURRIER?




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#37 : November 07, 2006, 12:22:08 AM

The problem with our current team is that its not getting better..... its getting much worse and if he is gonna receive credit for delivering us a  Lombardi then he deserves just as much "credit" for dumping that trash on the field @ the Ray Jay yesterday.

If I was seeing some progress then I may feel differently but after being here for 5 yrs, there isn't one group on this team that we can say is set for the next couple of years..... not one!!!!!

Boid Fink

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#38 : November 07, 2006, 12:22:27 AM

That man is a good coach, I am sick of y'all bashing him when the players are at fault. A coach can ask the team to do, but the players have to do it.

Period.

Gruden is still shackled by a poor O-line (improving, but still poor), one legit playmaking wideout, and a running back who can't catct despite being in a WCO.



It is about skill level, and Clayton doesn't have it. He just can't seperate on a regular, and Becht is not useable except for blocking, and the O-line is not getting it done (but they will).

Boid, with all due respect, this is the team that Gruden built. On what are you basing your case that he is a good coach. If "his" players aren't performing for him than that is just another sign that he isn't getting it done. Who's to blame for that?

I am not willing to get into the dynamics.

Gruden is part responsible. He is a leader. A bringer of talent.

Who exactly brought in the defense? Brooks, Lynch, Sapp, Barber, Kelly, Quarles, etc...

It is a two headed sword man.

One hand DUngy did....

On the other hand, Gruden did...

Etc...

So on...

Gruden got the Lombardi.

He did make mods to a team that was about ready to get over the hump.

He is responsible for some great seasons as a Raider and a Buc.

Gruden built this team, but he isn't the one taking bad angles, dropping key passes, fumbling away easy pitches, making bad throws.

At some point, the offense will click, or it won't. Who knows? But I am willing to see what youngsters will do once they hit stride together under one vision.

What other coach is going to take what the Bucs have, and suddenly turn it around?

I thought so.

STEVE SPURRIER?
[banghead]


alldaway

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#39 : November 07, 2006, 12:25:47 AM

The problem with our current team is that its not getting better..... its getting much worse and if he is gonna receive credit for delivering us a  Lombardi then he deserves just as much "credit" for dumping that trash on the field @ the Ray Jay yesterday.

If I was seeing some progress then I may feel differently but after being here for 5 yrs, there isn't one group on this team that we can say is set for the next couple of years..... not one!!!!!

I can agree with that.

Boid Fink

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#40 : November 07, 2006, 12:30:32 AM

The problem with our current team is that its not getting better..... its getting much worse and if he is gonna receive credit for delivering us a Lombardi then he deserves just as much "credit" for dumping that trash on the field @ the Ray Jay yesterday.

If I was seeing some progress then I may feel differently but after being here for 5 yrs, there isn't one group on this team that we can say is set for the next couple of years..... not one!!!!!

I can agree with that.

You can agree, but at some point, the wideouts have to catch a ball.  At some point, a RB has to be able to squeeze some yards in the open.

I haven't seen that.  Until Gruden puts on pads, I won't think it is his fault.  Some play calls have been crappy.  No doubt.

But some plays have cost the Bucs games.

Punt return for a TD?  Loss.

Joey and Clayton dropping HUGE passes versus NY?  Loss.

Defense not stopping Delhomme on fourth and long?  Loss.

Defense giving up TOP to New Orleans?  Loss.

B'More?  That was a spanking.





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#41 : November 07, 2006, 12:32:34 AM

just as you bring up those situations in those games, I could say that we are a 4th down td and a 62 yd fg away from being 0-8. Sad, isn't it?

Boid Fink

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#42 : November 07, 2006, 12:35:30 AM

just as you bring up those situations in those games, I could say that we are a 4th down td and a 62 yd fg away from being 0-8. Sad, isn't it?

I have already mentioned that.

Actually, you meant to say a bad call by a ref, and a miracle kick, from being 0-8.

And as sad as it is (it sucks), the Bucs need to make plays. 

I am not for firing Gruden, that is the bottom line.  IMO, anyway.

I don't think he will lose his job this year, he has a rook QB, and 2 fifths of his line is rook.


alldaway

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#43 : November 07, 2006, 12:35:46 AM

The problem with our current team is that its not getting better..... its getting much worse and if he is gonna receive credit for delivering us a Lombardi then he deserves just as much "credit" for dumping that trash on the field @ the Ray Jay yesterday.

If I was seeing some progress then I may feel differently but after being here for 5 yrs, there isn't one group on this team that we can say is set for the next couple of years..... not one!!!!!

I can agree with that.

You can agree, but at some point, the wideouts have to catch a ball.  At some point, a RB has to be able to squeeze some yards in the open.

I haven't seen that.  Until Gruden puts on pads, I won't think it is his fault.  Some play calls have been crappy.  No doubt.

But some plays have cost the Bucs games.

Punt return for a TD?  Loss.

Joey and Clayton dropping HUGE passes versus NY?  Loss.

Defense not stopping Delhomme on fourth and long?  Loss.

Defense giving up TOP to New Orleans?  Loss.

B'More?  That was a spanking.



I think HDE is talking about mainly Gruden's entire tenure here not just this year.  This year we all know the Bucs offense is young and expect miscues with growing pains.  But overall the Bucs have changed so many players on offense and have not yielded stellar results year after year.  And yet Les Steckel in one year led by Shaun King had a very productive offense.  There were some underrated players playing in it (Dunn, Neal, Middleton) but for the most part no one considered that offense tops in the NFL.


Boid Fink

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#44 : November 07, 2006, 12:37:52 AM

Point is, this is GRudens team now.  On Offense anyway.

He has the worst O in the NFL.  I understand.

The only prob I have with the O is Clayton.  I think he has officially crapped the bed.

He is a bad number 2, and the Bucs could use another wideout with skills.

As of now, they have one go to guy, and the rest are slow.  And I like Ike, and think he should be the number 2, in all reality.

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