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Larry Brackins

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: October 06, 2006, 07:44:44 PM

Simms is going to be fine which I am very happy for. However, it seems many of us have been tricked into thinking Chris was some great QB. He's not. We're 0-3, and a big reason why is because he was terrible the 1st 2 games. He played ok against Carolina, but still dug the team in a hole before he started playing well.

Don't let his toughness get in the way of his preformance, which was terrible.


#SaveUsJohnnyFootball

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#1 : October 06, 2006, 07:49:13 PM

Quarterbacks get too much credit when teams win, and too much blame when they lose.

This team is winless because they can't run the ball effectively and aren't tackling well at LB and Safety positions.  JMHO. 

Anyone who was banking on Simms to carry the team was fooling themselves.  Caddy and the Oline need to step up and produce.

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

Boid Fink

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#2 : October 06, 2006, 09:22:44 PM

Lets see, the O-line got him pulverized from game to game, and he had to have this resting in the back of his mind after every snap.  He was probably nervous, and with good reason.  He took some beatings out there.  ANY qb given that set of circumstance is going to play badly.  You wouldn't be nervous to have possibly the BEST defense in the Ravens coming at ya?

Lets also completely overlook the fact that the Bucs had a TD reversed in the ATL game, and the defense gave up 300 plus yards.  Just on the ground, that game.

As for Carolina, he came out bad, but he played well after that.  And he took a severe beating as well.  He rushed for one, and he tossed one...not too shabby if you ask me.  Oh yeah, he did that on a busted organ as well.  With no run support (again).  And the defense couldn't stop the Panthers on that crucial fourth and long, and that could have seasled the deal right there.

Simms is not a concern in my book.  It is the O-line, the run game, and some of the goofy play calls.

Simms was playing as a young quarterback under a ton of physical pressure.  Not just the mental pressure exuded by Gruden, which a small part of me actually admires, FWIW.

Simms is a decent QB.  He could be a great QB if given even an AVERAGE O-line, and a limited run game.  Of course, he has neither. 




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#3 : October 06, 2006, 09:23:42 PM

Lets see, the O-line got him pulverized from game to game, and he had to have this resting in the back of his mind after every snap. He was probably nervous, and with good reason. He took some beatings out there. ANY qb given that set of circumstance is going to play badly. You wouldn't be nervous to have possibly the BEST defense in the Ravens coming at ya?

Lets also completely overlook the fact that the Bucs had a TD reversed in the ATL game, and the defense gave up 300 plus yards. Just on the ground, that game.

As for Carolina, he came out bad, but he played well after that. And he took a severe beating as well. He rushed for one, and he tossed one...not too shabby if you ask me. Oh yeah, he did that on a busted organ as well. With no run support (again). And the defense couldn't stop the Panthers on that crucial fourth and long, and that could have seasled the deal right there.

Simms is not a concern in my book. It is the O-line, the run game, and some of the goofy play calls.

Simms was playing as a young quarterback under a ton of physical pressure. Not just the mental pressure exuded by Gruden, which a small part of me actually admires, FWIW.

Simms is a decent QB. He could be a great QB if given even an AVERAGE O-line, and a limited run game. Of course, he has neither.
true,hell  we're 1-2 if the D steps up and stops Delhomme on that 4th down run

Boid Fink

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#4 : October 06, 2006, 09:31:02 PM

true,hell we're 1-2 if the D steps up and stops Delhomme on that 4th down run

Exactly.

Now we all know SImms had his issues this year.  But I firmly believe he would have righted the ship.  His 7 picks were alarming to say the least, but he faced 2 stout secondaries in the Ravens and Falcons.  He would have figured it out, probably evening out his ratio a bit.  But that is all specualtion, and no one forced him into some of those decisions, but like I said, I think he would have squared it away.

If he would have kept up his yardage pace, he might have ended up with 3000 yards.  He was certainly on pace for that, having 585 through 3 games.

The blame is on the defense (and DB has come out and issued a public apology to us fans for their craptastic play), and the run game and O-line.  They haven't even shown up yet.


mjs020294

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#5 : October 06, 2006, 09:31:33 PM

I am not going to knock Simms while he is out injured, that just isn't fair.  He struggled at times, but he showed flashes of greatness sometimes as well.  I don't think he is an ideal fit for what Gruden is trying to do, but if Gruden can't find a QB to fit his system he better start thinking about making his system fit the QB instead.

Chris might still be our best shot at winning next year if the next few weeks go badly for Grads and McCown.


Boid Fink

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#6 : October 06, 2006, 09:36:18 PM

I am not going to knock Simms while he is out injured, that just isn't fair.  He struggled at times, but he showed flashes of greatness sometimes as well.  I don't think he is an ideal fit for what Gruden is trying to do, but if Gruden can't find a QB to fit his system he better start thinking about making his system fit the QB instead.

Chris might still be our best shot at winning next year if the next few weeks go badly for Grads and McCown.

I agree.  Their will be some major changes next year, on both sides of the ball.  I highly doubt Grads makes a splash worthy of thinking of replacing a guy like Simms.  He tore it up in TC, and given a run game and some actual time to throw, he might pan out.

FWIW, the defense has been horrid. 

 http://www.hit55.net/news_092606.html


mnbuc

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#7 : October 06, 2006, 09:52:43 PM

Look for him to be back next season (I hope) despite the slow start I suspect that some of it had to do with the amount of time he got during the pre-season.  Not an excuse but you could see the turnaround comeing last game.  Additional time in the pre-season won't hurt him and certinly will get better results.  This goes for a lot of the starters at the skill positions in my opinion.

karen anderson

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#8 : October 06, 2006, 09:56:16 PM

 Thank you, Boid. You are absolutely right & you know I've been saying the same thing. Credit to Chris, he didn'y throw anybody under the bus. Although there's a long list of candidates. I say we need a leader with that kind of guts. And the great coach will figure out how to make his QB successful.

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#9 : October 06, 2006, 09:58:23 PM

If Simms comes back to us next year as the starter, Gruden is going to have to change his game plan.I know it will be hard to do, but Simms needs more 5-7 step drops and needs to institute a shot gun,but I just don't see him doing that.

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#10 : October 06, 2006, 10:02:39 PM

He can put in the shotgun for Grads but not Chris? Is the game plan written in stone? Work it out!



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#11 : October 06, 2006, 10:08:39 PM

if Gruden can't find a QB to fit his system he better start thinking about making his system fit the QB instead.

It is my belief that great coaches adapt to the talents of the players they have around them.

karen anderson

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#12 : October 06, 2006, 10:12:54 PM

AMEN!! It's stupid not to use a talented player because you think things should be done a certain way. Adapt or die!

BUCFAN4LIFE

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#13 : October 06, 2006, 11:57:19 PM

Lets see, the O-line got him pulverized from game to game, and he had to have this resting in the back of his mind after every snap. He was probably nervous, and with good reason. He took some beatings out there. ANY qb given that set of circumstance is going to play badly. You wouldn't be nervous to have possibly the BEST defense in the Ravens coming at ya?

Lets also completely overlook the fact that the Bucs had a TD reversed in the ATL game, and the defense gave up 300 plus yards. Just on the ground, that game.

As for Carolina, he came out bad, but he played well after that. And he took a severe beating as well. He rushed for one, and he tossed one...not too shabby if you ask me. Oh yeah, he did that on a busted organ as well. With no run support (again). And the defense couldn't stop the Panthers on that crucial fourth and long, and that could have seasled the deal right there.

Simms is not a concern in my book. It is the O-line, the run game, and some of the goofy play calls.

Simms was playing as a young quarterback under a ton of physical pressure. Not just the mental pressure exuded by Gruden, which a small part of me actually admires, FWIW.

Simms is a decent QB. He could be a great QB if given even an AVERAGE O-line, and a limited run game. Of course, he has neither.

Boid, I think you give Chris way too much credit. Sure he is a tough SOB, but he has never  proven he can be great. As a 15 game starter he has a losing record at 7-8 and one of those is a give me seeing as how he only played a few downs before Griese took over against the Saints. He has thrown 17 picks vs 12 TD's and every game this year put us in huge holes early. He has been under 60% cmp and is under the meeger avg of a 75 Qb rating for his career. That said he didn't have much help and he surely didn't help himself when he had it.

As for Atlanta-- he had good protection and made absolutley idotic decisions in the redzone. Lets not forget he threw it out of the back of the EZ with a wide open Hilliard 5 yards in front of him. How do you miss that??? Or the dumb int when all he had to do on that play was throw it out of the back of the EZ. Sure the defense gave up big yards but they also held Atlanta to 14 pts. Against the Ravens he was just plain awful. Against Carolina he played better but still it was his miscues that cost us that game-- sure you can put blame on the defense-- but just remember that defense caused 3 TO's that set up short fields for Chris. And it wasn't like Chris was keeping that D off the field. Sure the D let us down in the end but that loss was both the offense, Simms, and the D's fault.

Simms quite simply has proven he is a tough SOB. Other than that he hasn't proven much except some games he shows flashes of brilliance and others he is completely lost. Not all his fault but surely he shares a heavy load of the blame when he throws 7 picks in 3 games and manages a passer rating in the 40's. Sure he is injured now and it may not be PC to bash him but lets be honest he has been barely seviceable as a starter. With that said at this point he is still the best QB on this roster. And still has upside- I am not willing to give up on him yet cause being a lifer I have seen us throw too many QBS away only to watch them excel elsewhere. And he has shown flashes but he definitely has way more to prove now since he wasn't able to make the turn when declared the starter.

I also agree Gruden should have adapted more to Chris's deficiencys and let him go out of a shotgun. With Chris's arm strength he could have been good IMO with more time and more field vision and had alot less balls batted down.


Boid Fink

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#14 : October 07, 2006, 12:14:52 AM

Boid, I think you give Chris way too much credit. Sure he is a tough SOB, but he has never  proven he can be great. As a 15 game starter he has a losing record at 7-8 and one of those is a give me seeing as how he only played a few downs before Griese took over against the Saints. He has thrown 17 picks vs 12 TD's and every game this year put us in huge holes early. He has been under 60% cmp and is under the meeger avg of a 75 Qb rating for his career.

As for Atlanta-- he had good protection and made absolutley idotic decisions in the redzone. Lets not forget he threw it out of the back of the EZ with a wide open Hilliard 5 yards in front of him. How do you miss that??? Or the dumb int when all he had to do on that play was throw it out of the back of the EZ. Sure the defense gave up big yards but they also held Atlanta to 14 pts. Against the Ravens he was just plain awful. Against Carolina he played better but still it was his miscues that cost us that game-- sure you can put blame on the defense-- but just remember that defense caused 3 TO's that set up short fields for Chris. And it wasn't like Chris was keeping that D off the field. Sure the D let us down in the end but that loss was both the offense, Simms, and the D's fault.

Simms quite simply has proven he is a tough SOB. Other than that he hasn't proven much except some games he shows flashes of brilliance and others he is completely lost. Not all his fault but surely he shares a heavy load of the blame when he throws 7 picks in 3 games and manages a passer rating in the 40's. Sure he is injured now and it may not be PC to bash him but lets be honest he has been barely seviceable as a starter. With that said at this point he is still the best QB on this roster.

I also agree Gruden should have adapted more to Chris's deficiencys and let him go out of a shotgun. With Chris's arm strength he could have been good IMO with more time and more field vision and had alot less balls batted down.

AS someone said, the QB gets too much credit-- for both wins and losses.

IMO, the numbers can be skewed because of the bad first two games.  Take away those, and it is a more even ratio.

I give the man credit, because when SOB went down last year, he roghted the ship, made one helluva comeback, had some nice games, made some great plays.  More than for just one game.

I mostly blame the run game (which is so bad as to make Simms horrible season look great, in comparison...remember, 585 yards in 3 games.)  How much damage has the run game done to anyone this year?  Go look at the numbers...I have, and they don't amount to much (worst in the league).  They are horrible.  Now wether that is Caddy, Pittman, or the O-lines fault, it has certainly impaired what happens to Simms.  Instead of playing eight in the box, the defenses can sag, they can man up tighter, and assume the first line of defenders is enough to stuff the anemic run attempts.  Whatever it is, it hurts the offense bad.  It cuts them right down the middle, and it gets the DBs slobbering.  The O-line protection is weak, at best.  The reason why pass pro was even "marginal" in the ATL game was because they were playing behind, and forced to throw practically every down...so the blitzing stopped, and it became more even on the front lines.

As stated, his miscues were starting to correct themselves.  He has been under soooo much duress, that how can he settle down, and get into a groove if every down he is being SMASHED into the turf?  Tough he may be, but that doesn't mean he is playing with his eyes closed and his teeth gritted....he is trying not to get his ribs broke, or his spleen removed!  (Too late).

Gruden may or may not have done enough.  But he has made some bad decisions this year.  The O-line is downright pathetic, Bush League garbage.  The Caddy is stalling out. 

Who would you rather have man this offense right now?  Bruce?  Or Simms?

I will take Simms based on the fact he is warming (was) warming up.  Gradkowski spells D-o-o-m for the Bucs...

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