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mjs020294

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#30 : November 08, 2006, 09:30:42 PM

A true Franchise QB who no one will question whether or not he is the guy....a guy who can anchor our team for 10 years.

Being a 1st round draft pick is no guarantee a QB will make it big in the NFL. 

1 2 Ryan Leaf QB Washington State
1 1 Tim Couch QB Kentucky
1 3 Akili Smith QB Oregon
1 12 Cade McNown QB UCLA
1 3 Joey Harrington QB Oregon
1 19 Kyle Boller QB California
1 22 Rex Grossman QB Florida
1 22 J.P. Losman QB Tulane
1 24 Aaron Rodgers QB California
1 25 Jason Campbell QB Auburn


Just having the tools to throw the ball and play in college isn't always enough.   Grads is impressing the right people:

"He's showed a calmness way beyond his years," quarterbacks coach Paul Hackett said. "He's shown the kind of poise you can't just teach."


The odds of him being a success are probably the same as a 1st round draft pick at this stage.








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#31 : November 08, 2006, 09:33:44 PM

A true Franchise QB who no one will question whether or not he is the guy....a guy who can anchor our team for 10 years.

Being a 1st round draft pick is no guarantee a QB will make it big in the NFL. 

1 2 Ryan Leaf QB Washington State
1 1 Tim Couch QB Kentucky
1 3 Akili Smith QB Oregon
1 12 Cade McNown QB UCLA
1 3 Joey Harrington QB Oregon
1 19 Kyle Boller QB California
1 22 Rex Grossman QB Florida
1 22 J.P. Losman QB Tulane
1 24 Aaron Rodgers QB California
1 25 Jason Campbell QB Auburn


Just having the tools to throw the ball and play in college isn't always enough.   Grads is impressing the right people:

"He's showed a calmness way beyond his years," quarterbacks coach Paul Hackett said. "He's shown the kind of poise you can't just teach."


The odds of him being a success are probably the same as a 1st round draft pick at this stage.





in fairness Campbell hasn't played, nor has Rodgers (though he comes from the 'big bust' system) Losman flat out blows, and it's just a crapshoot, you guys who use the 'draft status' argument are lame, that has no bearing on a player (or otherwise Colston at this point is the first pick in the draft, not the 4th to last)

mjs020294

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#32 : November 08, 2006, 09:37:10 PM

in fairness Campbell hasn't played, nor has Rodgers (though he comes from the 'big bust' system) Losman flat out blows, and it's just a crapshoot, you guys who use the 'draft status' argument are lame, that has no bearing on a player (or otherwise Colston at this point is the first pick in the draft, not the 4th to last)

I was hoping Campbell would drop a little further to us.   :o

The fact that some of the 1st round guys haven't played 18 months after they were drafted makes Grads's progress remarkable.  Remember this is an offense that veteran QBs struggle with for two or three years, so this kid is way ahead of the curve.




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#33 : November 08, 2006, 09:48:45 PM

in fairness Campbell hasn't played, nor has Rodgers (though he comes from the 'big bust' system) Losman flat out blows, and it's just a crapshoot, you guys who use the 'draft status' argument are lame, that has no bearing on a player (or otherwise Colston at this point is the first pick in the draft, not the 4th to last)

I was hoping Campbell would drop a little further to us. :o

The fact that some of the 1st round guys haven't played 18 months after they were drafted makes Grads's progress remarkable. Remember this is an offense that veteran QBs struggle with for two or three years, so this kid is way ahead of the curve.
yep, and remember Chris nor Rat Man could pick it up that quick. Didn't it take a few games for Brad to pick it up as well (if I remember right we really struggled until McCardell scored a TD in the Saints game)

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#34 : November 08, 2006, 09:54:54 PM

in fairness Campbell hasn't played, nor has Rodgers (though he comes from the 'big bust' system) Losman flat out blows, and it's just a crapshoot, you guys who use the 'draft status' argument are lame, that has no bearing on a player (or otherwise Colston at this point is the first pick in the draft, not the 4th to last)

I was hoping Campbell would drop a little further to us. :o

The fact that some of the 1st round guys haven't played 18 months after they were drafted makes Grads's progress remarkable. Remember this is an offense that veteran QBs struggle with for two or three years, so this kid is way ahead of the curve.

I think Gards is in there by default.  McCown has been hurt and is just coming back, and we all know Gruden can't stand Rattay.

And I wasn't saying 1st round guys are successfull, I am not an idiot.  But there are likely more 1st round successful QB"s than 6th.  The Bengals missed with Akili but didn't stop them from grabbing Palmer and they appear to hit.  I think we have to seriously consider a Quinn or maybe a Brohm or Smith. 

Bruce is not a Kid either.  He is a man.  I hate this Kid crap.  My son is almost 2, he is a kid.  My nephew is 8, he's a kid. RJ is a kid.  Seed is a kid.  Grads is out of college, he is an adult.  A man. 

mjs020294

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#35 : November 08, 2006, 10:02:52 PM

I think Gards is in there by default.  McCown has been hurt and is just coming back, and we all know Gruden can't stand Rattay.

No doubt circumstances helped Grads along, but for a 6th round rookie he is seizing his chance.


Bruce is not a Kid either.  He is a man.  I hate this Kid crap.  My son is almost 2, he is a kid.  My nephew is 8, he's a kid. RJ is a kid.  Seed is a kid.  Grads is out of college, he is an adult.  A man. 

It is a figure of speach Ray, and a lot of older people refer to young men as kids.


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#36 : November 08, 2006, 10:08:01 PM

yeah we are doing great throwig to the check down, we are on par for a top draft pick using that tactic. He may have the record for the most dropped INT's.

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#37 : November 08, 2006, 10:29:00 PM

Didn't Shaun King hold the old record?    I know King used to throw the ball 10 yards over the receivers heads to make sure he didnt throw many picks his first year.

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#38 : November 08, 2006, 10:46:19 PM

I don't think King put the ball down everytime he was touched though. I just don't see Grad's looking all that much better than King looked those first few games, and look at who King was throwing to.
As far as picking up the offense, I am sure there is not a QB in the NFL who knows the offense better than Gruden and I would hate to see him suit up and give it a shot. I don't see Grad's doing that well in the offense anyway, he goes to his check down most of the time...It doesn't seem like he allows the plays to be set up. Simms seemed to have similar problems but he would force it in, either way doesn't seem like it can win a game on a consistant basis, but at least Simms has the arm that can bail us out, if you give him time and GET OPEN #80...

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#39 : November 08, 2006, 11:28:40 PM

Troll much?

Diehart fisherman

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#40 : November 08, 2006, 11:46:54 PM

I said this before If the bucs were 6-2 Bruce would be are hero. But at 2-6 he is the one taking the heat.  The whole defence needs to be taking the heat as well!!!

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#41 : November 09, 2006, 08:54:43 AM

I think the big reason you see this Bruce bashing is because after ONE game everyone was on here proclaiming him to be ROY, MVP of the League, and Future HOF. So now you see the "I told you so's" from those that said hang on, and the people who were proclaiming him great are saying "Give him time, he is just a rookie." IMO those people are idiots. If you can claim him great after one game, then surely you can take it when someone says he isn't very good after 4. Reality is he is neither great nor horrible. He is a rookie QB. He is playing like it. He hasn't played great though, rookie or not. Just because he is a rookie does not mean he hasn't done bad. All it means is that it is not necessarily an idicator of future failure, just as his first game wasn't an indicator of future success....

I am sick of hearing "he is a rookie give him time." Other teams are not going to lay down because we have a rookie. If he plays bad, he plays bad. You can only hope he gets better. It is too funny to see when he did good everyone could judge him as such, but when he struggles people make excuses. Youc an't haveit both ways. If you are going to boast when he does well, you need to be able to handle it when people call him out for poor play.

I am sure he will improve, but the question is how much? How high is his ceiling? Is it high enough to warrant not taking a look at Luke, or not picking a QB high? IMO no.

This is precisely what the sentiment is, at least for me. After the Saints game, everyone in, all in on Grads after one game. Its stupid to think that way. People proclaim him the next Dan Marino after one game against the saints and when you look at a composite of 4 games and see what goes on during the game this is what you get. I hope Grads does well but lets be honest about things around here. How far can you see his game elevate? I cannot see him being anything more than a backup, that is just me after seeing four games. Leinart, young cutler have big time games, grads does not.




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#42 : November 09, 2006, 09:31:05 AM

And I wasn't saying 1st round guys are successfull, I am not an idiot.  But there are likely more 1st round successful QB"s than 6th.  The Bengals missed with Akili but didn't stop them from grabbing Palmer and they appear to hit.  I think we have to seriously consider a Quinn or maybe a Brohm or Smith. 

I like Palmer. But I think you have to surround a guy with the right people for them to be successful, and he has some good people around him in that offense.

Personally, I don't care too much about rifle arms in a QB. I'm looking for a guy who is charismatic, smart, quick thinker, efficient, and has enough strength to throw the ball effectively about 40-50 yards downfield when called upon to do so. If Grads develops and heads into the offseason strong, I'm more inclined to want to surround him with good players rather than spend a high draft pick on a green QB or big money on a FA QB.

The WCO, perhaps moreso than a more vertical offense, is dependent on the efficiency of everyone around the QB, not just the QB's ability to throw an accurate deep ball.

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#43 : November 09, 2006, 12:55:04 PM

For the record I was being facetious...

Going 180 something throws with one pick and passing the way he does is like like driving driving 40 mph when the speed limit is 55 and getting 1 ticket for going to slow...

Brad Johnson passed the same way in 2002 and only threw 6 picks in the regular season en route to winning the SB.....
Yah, and a safety was the MVP.



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#44 : November 09, 2006, 01:30:31 PM

I don't think King put the ball down everytime he was touched though. I just don't see Grad's looking all that much better than King looked those first few games, and look at who King was throwing to.
As far as picking up the offense, I am sure there is not a QB in the NFL who knows the offense better than Gruden and I would hate to see him suit up and give it a shot. I don't see Grad's doing that well in the offense anyway, he goes to his check down most of the time...It doesn't seem like he allows the plays to be set up. Simms seemed to have similar problems but he would force it in, either way doesn't seem like it can win a game on a consistant basis, but at least Simms has the arm that can bail us out, if you give him time and GET OPEN #80...

I just disagree.  King looked horrendous from the beginning.  There were no long completions when King was in there.  Grads has made plays, he's just missing consistency.
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