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Samari28

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#15 : November 08, 2006, 08:16:40 PM

Yeah well maybe Bruce can start to realize we actually have WR's over 3 inches tall as some of those stupid passes into the ground are getting old.  He needs to make quicker progression reads and stop always looking for just Joey/

ZenBuc

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#16 : November 08, 2006, 08:19:53 PM

Yeah well maybe Bruce can start to realize we actually have WR's over 3 inches tall as some of those stupid passes into the ground are getting old.  He needs to make quicker progression reads and stop always looking for just Joey/

That sure sounds like a common problem that all rookie QBs have...give the kid time

Samari28

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#17 : November 08, 2006, 08:23:53 PM

He is an AVERAGE QB yet everyone is making him seem like he is all that or will be all that - he is not a franchise QB and time will show all that he is OK at best.  The pass to Clayton last week was so easy, how do you miss that?  He frequently misses a wide open Alex Smith or Michael Clayton as he is looking for Joey and last week Alstott and someone else was wide open on the left side of the field and he is too busy looking to the right side the whole time - if the kid is so talented he would be able to make his proper progressions so I am not on the Gradkowski bandwagon as count me as a doubter.

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#18 : November 08, 2006, 08:42:46 PM

The pass to Clayton last week was so easy, how do you miss that?  .

It is the type of pass rookie QBs make when the game is going at 100mph.  Also, if you go back and actually watch that play again there was a D-lineman breaking through the line with his hands in the air right on his line to Clayton.  Grads panicked and made a poor throw, it happens get over it.

Honestly you guys are funny focussing in on the mistakes of a rookie.  Are you trying to say the only QB in NCAA history to have the highest pass completion percentage in back-to-back years can't be accurate?  how absurd.   :o


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#19 : November 08, 2006, 08:44:15 PM

IMO his accuracy will improve over time, there is no question in my mind about that.

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#20 : November 08, 2006, 08:53:40 PM

I think the big reason you see this Bruce bashing is because after ONE game everyone was on here proclaiming him to be ROY, MVP of the League, and Future HOF.  So now you see the "I told you so's" from those that said hang on, and the people who were proclaiming him great are saying "Give him time, he is just a rookie."  IMO those people are idiots.  If you can claim him great after one game, then surely you can take it when someone says he isn't very good after 4.  Reality is he is neither great nor horrible.  He is a rookie QB. He is playing like it.  He hasn't played great though, rookie or not.  Just because he is a rookie does not mean he hasn't done bad.  All it means is that it is not necessarily an idicator of future failure, just as his first game wasn't an indicator of future success....

I am sick of hearing "he is a rookie give him time."  Other teams are not going to lay down because we have a rookie.  If he plays bad, he plays bad.  You can only hope he gets better.  It is too funny to see when he did good everyone could judge him as such, but when he struggles people make excuses.  Youc an't haveit both ways.  If you are going to boast when he does well, you need to be able to handle it when people call him out for poor play.

I am sure he will improve, but the question is how much?  How high is his ceiling?  Is it high enough to warrant not taking a look at Luke, or not picking a QB high?  IMO no.

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#21 : November 08, 2006, 08:54:34 PM

Yeah well maybe Bruce can start to realize we actually have WR's over 3 inches tall as some of those stupid passes into the ground are getting old.  He needs to make quicker progression reads and stop always looking for just Joey/
Funny but I did alot of Simms bashing earlier this year for apparently thinking Alstotts hands were attached to his knees.  It's something that apparently is being taught.
And as to progressions he's a freakin' ROOKIE.  That's one of the areas they struggle in, they aren't used to the lack of time in this league compared to college.

SeedOfChucky33

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#22 : November 08, 2006, 08:55:19 PM

For the record I was being facetious...

Going 180 something throws with one pick and passing the way he does is like like driving driving 40 mph when the speed limit is 55 and getting 1 ticket for going to slow...

Brad Johnson passed the same way in 2002 and only threw 6 picks in the regular season en route to winning the SB.....

We also had one of the best defenses in NFL history. In case you haven't noticed, it's gone...

When you talk about what the college football experience is all about, that's it. Auburn is the epitome.
--Bud Poliquin, Syracuse Post-Standard
[/b]

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#23 : November 08, 2006, 08:56:06 PM

I think the big reason you see this Bruce bashing is because after ONE game everyone was on here proclaiming him to be ROY, MVP of the League, and Future HOF.  So now you see the "I told you so's" from those that said hang on, and the people who were proclaiming him great are saying "Give him time, he is just a rookie."  IMO those people are idiots.  If you can claim him great after one game, then surely you can take it when someone says he isn't very good after 4.  Reality is he is neither great nor horrible.  He is a rookie QB. He is playing like it.  He hasn't played great though, rookie or not.  Just because he is a rookie does not mean he hasn't done bad.  All it means is that it is not necessarily an idicator of future failure, just as his first game wasn't an indicator of future success....

I am sick of hearing "he is a rookie give him time."  Other teams are not going to lay down because we have a rookie.  If he plays bad, he plays bad.  You can only hope he gets better.  It is too funny to see when he did good everyone could judge him as such, but when he struggles people make excuses.  Youc an't haveit both ways.  If you are going to boast when he does well, you need to be able to handle it when people call him out for poor play.

I am sure he will improve, but the question is how much?  How high is his ceiling?  Is it high enough to warrant not taking a look at Luke, or not picking a QB high?  IMO no.
While I do remember a ROY thread, I don't recall all that many people being very (or at all) enthusiastic about that Idea.  I think you're overstating your case...

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#24 : November 08, 2006, 08:59:19 PM

I think the big reason you see this Bruce bashing is because after ONE game everyone was on here proclaiming him to be ROY, MVP of the League, and Future HOF. So now you see the "I told you so's" from those that said hang on, and the people who were proclaiming him great are saying "Give him time, he is just a rookie." IMO those people are idiots. If you can claim him great after one game, then surely you can take it when someone says he isn't very good after 4. Reality is he is neither great nor horrible. He is a rookie QB. He is playing like it. He hasn't played great though, rookie or not. Just because he is a rookie does not mean he hasn't done bad. All it means is that it is not necessarily an idicator of future failure, just as his first game wasn't an indicator of future success....

I am sick of hearing "he is a rookie give him time." Other teams are not going to lay down because we have a rookie. If he plays bad, he plays bad. You can only hope he gets better. It is too funny to see when he did good everyone could judge him as such, but when he struggles people make excuses. Youc an't haveit both ways. If you are going to boast when he does well, you need to be able to handle it when people call him out for poor play.

I am sure he will improve, but the question is how much? How high is his ceiling? Is it high enough to warrant not taking a look at Luke, or not picking a QB high? IMO no.
While I do remember a ROY thread, I don't recall all that many people being very (or at all) enthusiastic about that Idea. I think you're overstating your case...

Regardless of whether or not it is exaggerated a bit, the point is still true.  If you can say Grads is going to be amazing after 1 game, surely you can accept criticism of him after 4 games.  We all know he is a rookie.  We all know rookies have a learning curve and take time.  That doesn't change that fact that he makes poor throws or struggles with progressions.  The only thing him being a rookie does is say he might get better.  It doesn't change his play.  It doesn't mean we are set nor do we need a new QB.  But it does mean we should keep our options open and look.



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#25 : November 08, 2006, 09:04:33 PM

For the record I was being facetious...

Going 180 something throws with one pick and passing the way he does is like like driving driving 40 mph when the speed limit is 55 and getting 1 ticket for going to slow...

Brad Johnson passed the same way in 2002 and only threw 6 picks in the regular season en route to winning the SB.....

We also had one of the best defenses in NFL history. In case you haven't noticed, it's gone...
and yet Bruce gets the heat for that?

SeedOfChucky33

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#26 : November 08, 2006, 09:12:10 PM

For the record I was being facetious...

Going 180 something throws with one pick and passing the way he does is like like driving driving 40 mph when the speed limit is 55 and getting 1 ticket for going to slow...

Brad Johnson passed the same way in 2002 and only threw 6 picks in the regular season en route to winning the SB.....

We also had one of the best defenses in NFL history. In case you haven't noticed, it's gone...
and yet Bruce gets the heat for that?

No,  but you can't ignore the fact that we can't have that type of QB and be successful w/o the iron defense.

Brad Johnson worked because of the defense. Grads won't work because of the defense. It doesn't change his ability as a QB, but it does chance what the Bucs need in order to be successful

When you talk about what the college football experience is all about, that's it. Auburn is the epitome.
--Bud Poliquin, Syracuse Post-Standard
[/b]



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#27 : November 08, 2006, 09:15:21 PM

For the record I was being facetious...

Going 180 something throws with one pick and passing the way he does is like like driving driving 40 mph when the speed limit is 55 and getting 1 ticket for going to slow...

Brad Johnson passed the same way in 2002 and only threw 6 picks in the regular season en route to winning the SB.....

We also had one of the best defenses in NFL history. In case you haven't noticed, it's gone...
and yet Bruce gets the heat for that?

No, but you can't ignore the fact that we can't have that type of QB and be successful w/o the iron defense.

Brad Johnson worked because of the defense. Grads won't work because of the defense. It doesn't change his ability as a QB, but it does chance what the Bucs need in order to be successful
umm....a guy who throws more picks therefore putting the D out there more? How about rather than worry about signing a 'good' QB, put the money / draft into the defense, then we get that 'iron' D back and hey look at that Gradkowski is then perfect with the D...right?

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#28 : November 08, 2006, 09:15:38 PM

I think the big reason you see this Bruce bashing is because after ONE game everyone was on here proclaiming him to be ROY, MVP of the League, and Future HOF. So now you see the "I told you so's" from those that said hang on, and the people who were proclaiming him great are saying "Give him time, he is just a rookie." IMO those people are idiots. If you can claim him great after one game, then surely you can take it when someone says he isn't very good after 4. Reality is he is neither great nor horrible. He is a rookie QB. He is playing like it. He hasn't played great though, rookie or not. Just because he is a rookie does not mean he hasn't done bad. All it means is that it is not necessarily an idicator of future failure, just as his first game wasn't an indicator of future success....

I am sick of hearing "he is a rookie give him time." Other teams are not going to lay down because we have a rookie. If he plays bad, he plays bad. You can only hope he gets better. It is too funny to see when he did good everyone could judge him as such, but when he struggles people make excuses. Youc an't haveit both ways. If you are going to boast when he does well, you need to be able to handle it when people call him out for poor play.

I am sure he will improve, but the question is how much? How high is his ceiling? Is it high enough to warrant not taking a look at Luke, or not picking a QB high? IMO no.
While I do remember a ROY thread, I don't recall all that many people being very (or at all) enthusiastic about that Idea. I think you're overstating your case...

Regardless of whether or not it is exaggerated a bit, the point is still true.  If you can say Grads is going to be amazing after 1 game, surely you can accept criticism of him after 4 games.  We all know he is a rookie.  We all know rookies have a learning curve and take time.  That doesn't change that fact that he makes poor throws or struggles with progressions.  The only thing him being a rookie does is say he might get better.  It doesn't change his play.  It doesn't mean we are set nor do we need a new QB.  But it does mean we should keep our options open and look.
The whole point is that you don't expect a rookie to make great throws or reads.   Thats why they almost all suck their first year.  Go read Dal's analysis on buc bounty, He's actually pretty accurate:  Give him an A for a rookie and a C for overall QB performance. 
I think when people say Grads is doing well, for the most part they are taking the rookie factor into consideration on that.  I don't see anyone saying he's doing a "great job overall".  Next time you look at someone saying Grads is doing incredibly well, just append "for a rookie" or "all things considered".  I don't think anyone here thinks he's Marino or Montanna in their prime...

rayfsc07

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#29 : November 08, 2006, 09:20:30 PM

I think the big reason you see this Bruce bashing is because after ONE game everyone was on here proclaiming him to be ROY, MVP of the League, and Future HOF. So now you see the "I told you so's" from those that said hang on, and the people who were proclaiming him great are saying "Give him time, he is just a rookie." IMO those people are idiots. If you can claim him great after one game, then surely you can take it when someone says he isn't very good after 4. Reality is he is neither great nor horrible. He is a rookie QB. He is playing like it. He hasn't played great though, rookie or not. Just because he is a rookie does not mean he hasn't done bad. All it means is that it is not necessarily an idicator of future failure, just as his first game wasn't an indicator of future success....

I am sick of hearing "he is a rookie give him time." Other teams are not going to lay down because we have a rookie. If he plays bad, he plays bad. You can only hope he gets better. It is too funny to see when he did good everyone could judge him as such, but when he struggles people make excuses. Youc an't haveit both ways. If you are going to boast when he does well, you need to be able to handle it when people call him out for poor play.

I am sure he will improve, but the question is how much? How high is his ceiling? Is it high enough to warrant not taking a look at Luke, or not picking a QB high? IMO no.
While I do remember a ROY thread, I don't recall all that many people being very (or at all) enthusiastic about that Idea. I think you're overstating your case...

Regardless of whether or not it is exaggerated a bit, the point is still true. If you can say Grads is going to be amazing after 1 game, surely you can accept criticism of him after 4 games. We all know he is a rookie. We all know rookies have a learning curve and take time. That doesn't change that fact that he makes poor throws or struggles with progressions. The only thing him being a rookie does is say he might get better. It doesn't change his play. It doesn't mean we are set nor do we need a new QB. But it does mean we should keep our options open and look.
The whole point is that you don't expect a rookie to make great throws or reads. Thats why they almost all suck their first year. Go read Dal's analysis on buc bounty, He's actually pretty accurate: Give him an A for a rookie and a C for overall QB performance.
I think when people say Grads is doing well, for the most part they are taking the rookie factor into consideration on that. I don't see anyone saying he's doing a "great job overall". Next time you look at someone saying Grads is doing incredibly well, just append "for a rookie" or "all things considered". I don't think anyone here thinks he's Marino or Montanna in their prime...

I think probably the biggest problem people have is we expected to compete this year.  People have a hard time admitting that now we aren't.  Grads pretty much puts the icing on that realization at this point.  People don't see a rookie QB out there.  We see a guy who isn't doing that great and us losing games.  There is no quick fix at this point.  I am moving toward the lines of bringing in a vet like Snake Plummer or someone of that nature next year for a year or 2, drafting a true franchise guy and trying to give us something we have never had.  A true Franchise QB who no one will question whether or not he is the guy....a guy who can anchor our team for 10 years.
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