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BTownBucFan

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#30 : November 10, 2006, 07:53:50 AM

he needs to do something about it then ... plain and simple. 

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#31 : November 10, 2006, 10:24:02 AM

if you take out Rice's effort we are by far the worst defense in terms of sacks.

That is why I never understood why the Bucs did not pursue Rocky Bernard nor attempt to bring in a pass rushing DE from the draft.  I know it is spilled milk but we all saw this last year and now the wheels are coming off.


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#32 : November 10, 2006, 10:43:23 AM


Yah, what a joke...it's all Rice? Just like 1999 right?

In terms of pass, yes it is. Last year, if you take out Rice's effort we are by far the worst defense in terms of sacks. In other words, it is all or nothing with Simoen and frankly wi/o him generating pressure the other scrub pass rushers we have don't generate a lot on their own.Now, we have a lot of other issues that are not all about Sim but in pass rush terms it most certainly is all about him.
Please dalbuc I expect better from you. What have we been force fed about what makes our defense great, and what has made it great in the past? We have always been told countless times what makes our defense great is the DT, WLB and SS. What a coincidence that those are our 2 weakest spots right now, and the other is our HoF'r on the decline. Our defense was great when we had Chidi Ahanotu, Steve White and Marcus Jones. Get off Rice's jock strap, and this defense doesn't need Rice to succeed. His one dimensional game and his outrageous salary is what keeps this defense down.

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#33 : November 10, 2006, 10:51:24 AM

BlackBeardsGhost

I agree that for this defense to be great you do not need to have great DE's.  But with that said when you do not have a great DT the next best thing is a great DE. 

Wyms is actually a good DT (but not great) as a starter as he has produced sacks and pressures.  Not to mention he is fairly active with the number of tackles he has considering he has not been a starter the entire season. He is injured but if he produces some sacks while injured this will make Simeon look really bad.  Basically I am waiting to see which injured player nabs the first sack?  Wyms or Rice? 


That is why I never understood why the Bucs did not pursue Rocky Bernard nor attempt to bring in a pass rushing DE from the draft.  I know it is spilled milk but we all saw this last year and now the wheels are coming off.


Rice was clearly our single biggest point of failure entering the season becuase there isn't anyonne that can fill his role. Now, it is always hard to fill that role in the NFL but his loss (in functional terms if not in actual physical presence) has killed us in the passing game at times becuase there is simply no rush.

Not only that but if teams think Rice is no longer a threat and can be handled one on one they can send an extra player out into a route.  Which is not good for a defense playing zone or man to man with no pass rush.  It just compounds the problems.


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#34 : November 10, 2006, 11:20:56 AM

BlackBeardsGhost

I agree that for this defense to be great you do not need to have great DE's.  But with that said when you do not have a great DT the next best thing is a great DE. 

Wyms is actually a good DT (but not great) as a starter as he has produced sacks and pressures.  Not to mention he is fairly active with the number of tackles he has considering he has not been a starter the entire season. He is injured but if he produces some sacks while injured this will make Simeon look really bad.  Basically I am waiting to see which injured player nabs the first sack?  Wyms or Rice? 


That is why I never understood why the Bucs did not pursue Rocky Bernard nor attempt to bring in a pass rushing DE from the draft.  I know it is spilled milk but we all saw this last year and now the wheels are coming off.


Rice was clearly our single biggest point of failure entering the season becuase there isn't anyonne that can fill his role. Now, it is always hard to fill that role in the NFL but his loss (in functional terms if not in actual physical presence) has killed us in the passing game at times becuase there is simply no rush.

Not only that but if teams think Rice is no longer a threat and can be handled one on one they can send an extra player out into a route.  Which is not good for a defense playing zone or man to man with no pass rush.  It just compounds the problems.


A chain is only as strong as it's weakest link. Well, if you only have so much money to spend on your chain, and you waste most of it on one link to make that link out of titanium, and because of that four other links are made of aluminum, then you have a pretty **CENSORED**ty chain that's pretty damn weak. I don't know how else to say this, but with the money wasted on Rice, we could have had a Rockey Bernard type, and a Will Witherspoon type, and maybe resigned Dex Jackson or some other FA Safety. $11 mil is a lot of friggn' money for a one dimensional player.  Dalbuc keeps bringing up how Freeney won't be much better for about $7 mil....well if we spend that other $4 mil fortifying 2 other psoitions, our chain is a hell of a lot stronger. I'm not even lobbying for Freeney, just a point.

keeponbucn

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#35 : November 10, 2006, 11:28:40 AM

BlackBeardsGhost

I agree that for this defense to be great you do not need to have great DE's. But with that said when you do not have a great DT the next best thing is a great DE.

Wyms is actually a good DT (but not great) as a starter as he has produced sacks and pressures. Not to mention he is fairly active with the number of tackles he has considering he has not been a starter the entire season. He is injured but if he produces some sacks while injured this will make Simeon look really bad. Basically I am waiting to see which injured player nabs the first sack? Wyms or Rice?


That is why I never understood why the Bucs did not pursue Rocky Bernard nor attempt to bring in a pass rushing DE from the draft. I know it is spilled milk but we all saw this last year and now the wheels are coming off.


Rice was clearly our single biggest point of failure entering the season becuase there isn't anyonne that can fill his role. Now, it is always hard to fill that role in the NFL but his loss (in functional terms if not in actual physical presence) has killed us in the passing game at times becuase there is simply no rush.

Not only that but if teams think Rice is no longer a threat and can be handled one on one they can send an extra player out into a route. Which is not good for a defense playing zone or man to man with no pass rush. It just compounds the problems.


A chain is only as strong as it's weakest link. Well, if you only have so much money to spend on your chain, and you waste most of it on one link to make that link out of titanium, and because of that four other links are made of aluminum, then you have a pretty **CENSORED**ty chain that's pretty damn weak. I don't know how else to say this, but with the money wasted on Rice, we could have had a Rockey Bernard type, and a Will Witherspoon type, and maybe resigned Dex Jackson or some other FA Safety. $11 mil is a lot of friggn' money for a one dimensional player. Dalbuc keeps bringing up how Freeney won't be much better for about $7 mil....well if we spend that other $4 mil fortifying 2 other psoitions, our chain is a hell of a lot stronger. I'm not even lobbying for Freeney, just a point.


Wrong. 

Cutting Rice last year wouldn't have saved money, it would've cost just as much. So your theory is blown out of the water. When Rice signed that big contract he was one of the best DE's in football. Those don't grow on trees in the NFL, you pay a premium for that type of player.

Mckay back-loaded the contract, direct your hissy fit in the proper direction. I'm not saying all of the Bucs problems are Mckay's fault but he is well known for back-loading all of his contracts.

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#36 : November 10, 2006, 11:34:25 AM

"He is playing with a 2nd degree a/c joint seperation. This coming from a little birdy."

Then He needs to go sit down,,and Shut-Up,as he is doing nothing to Help the team.
The coach can sit him down.  The player should go out and play if at all possible, and it should be up to the coach to put the best player on the field.


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#37 : November 10, 2006, 11:34:48 AM

WRONG... we didn't need a premeir DE in our defense that would cost that much money to begin with. He's a waste of money. He should never have been resigned.

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#38 : November 10, 2006, 11:37:53 AM

Gruden seems to have respect for Rice playing with his injuries.  A shoulder injury and stomach injury do have an effect on a player being able to explode off the snap and create leverage.  But the ankle injury that Wyms has is far worse as it is really, really hard to explode off the ball with that type of an injury and hard to find some leverage.

Basically if Wyms is able to generate sacks with his injury there are no excuses left for Simeon Rice.  I would hope the coaching staff considers sitting Rice if he is that hurt.


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#39 : November 10, 2006, 11:39:10 AM

A chain is only as strong as it's weakest link. Well, if you only have so much money to spend on your chain, and you waste most of it on one link to make that link out of titanium, and because of that four other links are made of aluminum, then you have a pretty **CENSORED**ty chain that's pretty damn weak. I don't know how else to say this, but with the money wasted on Rice, we could have had a Rockey Bernard type, and a Will Witherspoon type, and maybe resigned Dex Jackson or some other FA Safety. $11 mil is a lot of friggn' money for a one dimensional player.  Dalbuc keeps bringing up how Freeney won't be much better for about $7 mil....well if we spend that other $4 mil fortifying 2 other psoitions, our chain is a hell of a lot stronger. I'm not even lobbying for Freeney, just a point.
Quote

This is such nonsense it isn't even funny and homes here knows he's lying (or maybe not becuase he's in deep doublethink) because earlier he went through the Steve White, Marcus Jones, Tyoka Jackson, Chidi Ahanotu based lines where Sapp was the only link worth a darn and was, in relative terms because of the salary rise, being paid Rice-ish money.

Sapp and Rice have shown that you need Batman on the line and you can get by with 3 Robins around him but the thought that you can trade1 Batman for 2 Robins and it all evens out ain't true. You notice that NE when they had to back the truckload of money up did it for two guys - Tomy Brady and Richard Seymour? Why, he's Batman on the D front and the rest of those cats are his sidekicks.
Even more nonsense, depsite our #1 ranking last season, QB's were converting 3rd and longs all day everyday...against your premiere pass rush specialist. Heres the part where you tell me he was quadruple and quintuple teamed. How the Opposing O-lineman fastened a ball and chain to his ankles while the ref's weren't looking...or how Rice's huge gambling debt to a local mob boss caused his loved ones to be kid napped and the ransom was to be payed off with subpar play.

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#40 : November 10, 2006, 12:23:12 PM

No, here is where I tell you Rice was the only pass rusher we had and I never said the pass rush was great last just that it was him and no one else. That was still good enough to be the #1 yardage and #8 scoring defense last year. What you see this year, especially in turnovers, is what happens when you get no pressure. You want a Warren Sapp type DT in here, so do I. Go find one for me. I don't care about Rice other than we need someone to come in here and get pressure on someone because w/o that pass rusher (from whatever spot)  we're not very good on defense.

The notion that people were converting long 3rd and long is another case of bad recollection rather than a reality and why stats and not your shotty memory have value. We allowed 75 3rd down conversions out of 223 attempted so that ain't that bad...oh wait, hold on that was in 2002 with the best defense in the league, last year we slipped all the way to allowing 75 of 214 (34% in 2002 vs 35% last year).  Yeah, it was awful. You can't be a good defense and let folks convert all the time.
Yah, and what 72 of those were what 3rd and 9 - 3rd and 15? The QB's could have wrote a letter to their high school sweethearts and mailed it off with the time they had in the pocket last season. That's not worth $11 mil

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#41 : November 10, 2006, 12:41:25 PM

WRONG... we didn't need a premeir DE in our defense that would cost that much money to begin with. He's a waste of money. He should never have been resigned.

Are you serious? Do you actually believe that? I've got nothing for you. Honestly this is one of the most ignorant posts I've seen in a long time.

It's like going out to dinner and eating a great meal, ordering drinks, etc then getting the bill and saying it wasn't worth it.

Did you watch the NFCCG in 2002? How about the Skins game last year? Those 2 games alone are worth the price. Oh, don't forget he's the leads the league in sacks over the past 5 years. Say it!!!


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#42 : November 10, 2006, 12:49:38 PM

Did you watch Sundays Miami/Bears game? That's a real DE.

Not too mention, I watched Barber and Joe J. two our our least paid guys play a big, big role in winning that game. But go ahead keep settling. I have nothing for you and your star struck, dreamy eyed Rice loving self. Is he you daddy?

keeponbucn

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#43 : November 10, 2006, 12:57:13 PM

Did you watch Sundays Miami/Bears game? That's a real DE.

you can kick and scream, yell at the TV and cry when you see other DE's playing. When someone else drives a nicer car than you do you cry? Kick and old lady?

I think it's hilarious for anyone to discredit Rice's accomplishments as a Buc. This year has been awful but over the course of his career here he's earned that money. He IS playing hurt and as mentioned this pass rush is nothing without a healthy Rice to command attention. Ask any Bucs player on the defensive side of the ball what they think of Rice, they'll tell you. Your opinion isn't valid, it isn't even worthy of discussion. 

There really is no argument

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#44 : November 10, 2006, 12:59:59 PM

Did you watch Sundays Miami/Bears game? That's a real DE.

Not too mention, I watched Barber and Joe J. two our our least paid guys play a big, big role in winning that game. But go ahead keep settling. I have nothing for you and your star struck, dreamy eyed Rice loving self. Is he you daddy?


last one. It's not about dreamy eyed, you're ignoring facts. it's pretty simple your hatred for one player has blinded you from thinking logically. it's alright, go scream and cry because Rice makes $10M. I know, it's your money he's taking.
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