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#15 : September 13, 2007, 08:51:34 AM

Seeing that you have 0 tolerance for rebuilding an empire of champions and have no patience at all for another failed season. Which new Head Coach can come in here and make a huge turn around and turn this team into instant contenders?


Zero tolerance, are you freaking kidding.  People just want to see progress, and after five years in the job Gruden appears to be struggling.


this thread is not intended for argument MSJ. The question is about coaching. wanna argue, go join the other threads dedicated to bashing Jon Gruden.
How can you respond to MJS in that manner? You don't want argument, and you wan't a simple answer? Then you should have thought about that before you injected personal bias into your post with your second paragraph. Patience? You have to be friggn' kidding me? How many years does a coach have to fail before he is considered "out of chances" by you Hosemonster?

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#16 : September 13, 2007, 09:36:56 AM

"Seeing that you have 0 tolerance for rebuilding an empire of champions and have no patience at all for another failed season."

Geeze! What a load of BS that is. I'm all for rebuilding the "empire of champions" I just don't see Gruden as being capable of doing that. When it comes to picking talent the man is an impulse shopper. He knows what he wants when he sees it. Then once he gets it he's like a kid 2 weeks after Christmas, he's bored and ready to move on to the next new thing. His personnel skills are poor and his demeanor and temperament lousy. It would be a lot easier "rebuilding the empire of champions" if our veteran players weren't counting the days until they can leave for another team.

As for my coaching choice I would promote from within. Raheem Morris is one of the last of a string of Dungy disciples that hasn't been hired as a head coach. I would be willing to give him a shot before we recycle some fired coach from outside the organization.

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#17 : September 13, 2007, 09:44:23 AM

Chuck Norris would be my number one candidate... but that goes to show I haven't been thinking about it.


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#18 : September 13, 2007, 09:53:05 AM

Cowher...think about how many Rings he'd have if the Patriots didn't cheat. Maybe this news about the Pats is the match that lights a fire under Cowher to coach again.

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#19 : September 13, 2007, 09:54:03 AM

 The problem here (and it has been this way for many years) is that we don't have a strong "Player/Personnel" department. Can anyone rattle off players we've developed (making them better than they were as rookies), and are still with us, over the last decade?  Barber and Kelly? The lack of picks post '02 hasn't helped, but we've missed on many of the ones that we did have.  Yeah, McKay's a scumbag who left this team a mess...but I've yet to see a player develop under Gruden/Allen.  It actually seems like they get worse...Clayton, Buenning, Caddy, A. Smith.  Trueblood is a "stiff" and Joseph, while full of potential, really channelled Yatta the other day.  

On top of it, just look at this quote from Brooks:

 "I think I did pretty good, outside of losing the ball on the touchdown and missing the tackle in the open field," he said, pulling a shirt over his head. "Other than that, I think I played pretty good."

 
Remember when guys on our defense used to be held accountable for their sub-par play…look at what we’ve become…what the standard is w/o a Nickerson (and later Sapp) in the locker room, in everyone’s face.  If this guys is running the locker room , this season is over and this team is in serious trouble.  Brooks has turned into a joke.  It’s sad to see a once great player still believe he’s great.  Monty/Gru need to see it too.  

All of this leads me to believe that it's time to clean house.  I really do like Gruden.  Would love for him to be our coach and show me something this year.  Guys, Allen is one of the best in the business when it comes to contracts and dollars.  Gruden can handle the Xs and Os. But with little player development and what seems to be a lack of accountability...we need to consider going in another direction.

Really, a return to our roots...I say give Joe Barry a chance. He's going to be an HC some day soon...why not here?

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#20 : September 13, 2007, 09:54:15 AM

It isn't that we don't have the patience, but rather the team lacks direction and everyone can see it.

Again and again I have mentioned that my biggest fear is that we have not progressed our players. I think now more than ever the talent is there, however, the players have failed to perfClaorm past their rookie years under Gruden and this coaching staff. Gruden gives up on people way too quickly. Then we bring in Cato June who is the best LB on this team at this point and we pull him on 3rd downs so that DB can play. That's ridiculous. Even if it's on Monte, Gruden is the head coach and he can make the calls there.

We've got no QB past Garcia, a question mark at RB, WR, OL (just like always). What has he fixed, then? This is what he was supposed to take care of in his time here. We were supposed to have these things figured out 5 years down the road.

This isn't Gruden's 1st year or 2nd year or even 3rd year with the club. The guy has had ample time to do what he saw fit to build a winner here. We all embraced the fact that we would do it with our offense. Unfortunately, his offense has been offensive, particularly the guys who HE drafted.

What is exciting to me is that perhaps Clayton, Cadillac, Stovall, the OL will all play better under a new coaching staff. I think the talent is here but unfortunately the teacher's on sabatacle. He's more willing to just bandaid our incision from surgery than sew it shut.

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#21 : September 13, 2007, 09:59:49 AM

bucsrback, awesome post man. We said the same things at the same time.

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#22 : September 13, 2007, 10:45:12 AM

If less than 8-8:

1.)  Allen goes.  Abrasive and ineffective face of franchise.  Abrasive is fine, but doing it while losing isn't.  Unless this team gets incredibly hot, I just can't see him keeping his job.  Since 2003, the record on the teams he has been an Exec:  24-42.  Possibly the worst GM in football. 
2.)  You need either a vet GM or a vet HC.  IF Gruden keeps his job, you need a vet GM to take over.  Id love Parcells, since he has good contacts in the league to build a real FO, and knows his evaluation.  The price of seeing him and Gruden squabble would also be quite entertaining.  Id like to see us get Phil Savage, who is struggling in Cleveland, but I think that is due to Cremel, who is just not a HC.  You look at his drafts and FA signings, and it is hard to argue what he did when he did them. 
3.)  If you let Gruden go; Id love Ferentz, followed by Marty Shottenheimer (yes, not a great coach, but a guy who will get us back to respectability, as he does coach up younger players).  Other names: Josh McDaniel, Leslie Frazier, Russ Grim, Mike Singletary, Ron Rivera, The Ryan Brothers.  I also like Butch Davis as a coach, not as a personnel talent guy. 

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#23 : September 13, 2007, 10:53:51 AM

Parcells? wtf? after the times he's scorned the Bucs? Knowing that he would only coach 3 years?

College Coaches? Ya.... cause they've done SOOOO WELL in the NFL. Especially a coach from SUCH  a powerhouse like overrated every year Rutgers.

Marty Schottenheimer! YES... Another great one! What's his playoff record again?!

Cowher... AND HOW LONG did it take for him to win a Superbowl?

I'm p-o'd about this team too... But if Gruden goes, please, I wanna see a viable replacement... and all you guys are spitting out some ridiculous candidates.

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#24 : September 13, 2007, 10:58:35 AM

I have liked the coach at Iowa, Ferentz, I believe.  Candidates would emerge.  The NFL is a different game, but I think his coaching style would probably translate.  In a perfect world Gruden would be the guy.  I just have lost faith in his ability to build a team of younger players.  I think he does well with established/veteran ones.  Maybe better than most other coaches out there.  I wholeheartedly agree with the post above about the player personnel department.  They have been awful.  Even when we were successfully drafting in the past, for every Brooks/Sapp pick we would have an Upshaw/Marcus Jones draft.  Hell, I remember us drafting linebackers aplenty in the old days.  Keith Mccants over Junior Seau?  Man...those days were bad.

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#25 : September 13, 2007, 11:24:16 AM

Parcells? what? after the times he's scorned the Bucs? Knowing that he would only coach 3 years?

College Coaches? Ya.... cause they've done SOOOO WELL in the NFL. Especially a coach from SUCH a powerhouse like overrated every year Rutgers.

Marty Schottenheimer! YES... Another great one! What's his playoff record again?!

Cowher... AND HOW LONG did it take for him to win a Superbowl?

I'm p-o'd about this team too... But if Gruden goes, please, I wanna see a viable replacement... and all you guys are spitting out some ridiculous candidates.

In a single swath you just basically shot down every coaching candidate that is out there. I mean, if a guy who went 14-2 in his last season as a head coach isn't a viable replacement for Gruden I don't know who is. Also, if you replace him with Cowher, a guy who did win a Super Bowl and has had a lot of wins over the past decade I just don't understand how you are unhappy with that.

None of these guys are terrible candidates to take over. I can see where you are coming from on the college coaches don't do well in the NFL front. I would steer clear of a college coach. Possibly the best way to go is to get an assistant in the NFL to take over as his first gig. That seems to be the path of the future here. It's too bad we missed out on Tomlin.

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#26 : September 13, 2007, 11:53:49 AM

I'd like Joe Barry.

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#27 : September 13, 2007, 11:55:03 AM

Steve Spurrier



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#28 : September 13, 2007, 12:11:19 PM

jay gruden

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#29 : September 13, 2007, 12:16:45 PM

I'm p-o'd about this team too... But if Gruden goes, please, I wanna see a viable replacement... and all you guys are spitting out some ridiculous candidates.

What does a viable candidate look like to you?

I mean c'mon Cowher has the ring, a long NFL record of success and he makes stupid faces on the sideline so if you don't look close you can pretend he's Gruden.

Seriously, the notion that there are no viable head coaching candidates is just silly so you tell us if the Glazers go all nutty in the head and fire their coach even if he has an 0-16 season and ends up last in offense, defense, scoring, turnovers and penalties - and I know you wouldn't fire him but pretend the Glazers went foolish- who would you want them to hire? <insert cop out here>

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.
If you think Manziel is the best QB in this draft I can safely assume you are an idiot and will treat you as such.
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