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cyberdude557

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« #30 : September 18, 2007, 02:46:00 PM »

Two officers have been placed on administrative leave pending the outcome of an FDLE investigation.

"In 37 years of public appearances, through wars, protests and highly emotional events, I have never had a dialogue end this way. I believe I could have handled the situation without interruption, but I do not know what warnings or other exchanges transpired between the young man and the police prior to his barging to the front of the line and their intervention. I asked the police to allow me to answer the question and was in the process of responding when he was taken into custody. I was not aware that a taser was used until after I left the building. I hope that neither the student nor any of the police were injured. I regret enormously that a good healthy discussion was interrupted."
-John Kerry's response to the incident

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« #31 : September 18, 2007, 02:58:01 PM »

I am not allowed to watch youtube at work so there may be other angles that show things I have not seen, so from that perspective I will remain open minded. However, based on what I have seen here are my thoughts:

1. The cops would not have arbitrarily decided by themselves to stop the kid and remove him from the premises. That would have been done by the meeting organizers. Not being a Lawyer it does strike me as their right to do so.

2. The Cops were firm but resolute. At no time did they seem to lose it, attempt to punch, kick or generally abuse him, until he kicked off. Even then it didn't exactly qualify as a Rodney King moment.

3. The kid is a jackass.

4. As soon as they Cops attempted to escort him away he resisted. Tried to pull away and become pretty animated.

5. At least 2 of the Cops were women, and not big ones at that. He clearly towered over them. I know a lot of women make good cops but when it comes down the rough and tumble, I'm sorry and call me sexist but I don't think they were probably that much help.

6. The kid was a jackass.

7. When he got tazed he was surrounded by people and you could not see what he was doing that warranted it. At least I could not from the clip I saw.

8. It seems to me he got a teeny weeny zap to bring him to his senses. If he had gotten well and truly zapped he would not have been whining 'my god they tazered me' or words to the effect thereof.

9. I am quite an advocate of free speech and I can see to some degree why some would confuse this with a free speech issue. Guy wants to say something, the arm of the Govt come along and remove him etc. But, with the Police being Campus Police I don't think that argument really has any validity. Also, the right to Free Speech gives you the right to say something, not the location. If you come into my house and start calling me a jackass, you have the right to do so, but I am also within my rights to escort you off my property. He could have easily walked outside and continued his rant out there.



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« #32 : September 18, 2007, 03:01:42 PM »

These need to ban these tasers... they are being abused far too often.



Dont bring that up on here, apparently cops should be allowed to use these 'deadly' tasers in the most ridiculous situations. Like this one


Cops like that make me sick, sorry azz pigs I bet that guy wouldve beat the shyt out of any one of them one on one.

Morgan

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« #33 : September 18, 2007, 03:20:40 PM »

At the very beginning, the kid started to walk away from the podium and the cops grabbed
him. This could have been avoided.

He did NOT start to walk away from the mike. He turned around questioning why his mike was turned off and then the officers tried to walk him away and out. Once he started to resist and pull away from them, all bets are off. He got exactly what he deserved...

Exactly. He became unruly and a disturbance to the general public. Glad they zapped his ass.

Morgan

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« #34 : September 18, 2007, 03:27:15 PM »

P.s. let him join us in the US military......(bring back the draft).....we'll teach him to respect authority (wink).



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« #35 : September 18, 2007, 03:34:20 PM »

Exactly. He became unruly and a disturbance to the general public. Glad they zapped his butt.

Yes, anyone who doesn't go along with the majority should be tasered. This should be repeated until society is homogeneous.  All independent thought should be quashed.

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« #36 : September 18, 2007, 03:39:49 PM »

I am not allowed to watch youtube at work so there may be other angles that show things I have not seen, so from that perspective I will remain open minded. However, based on what I have seen here are my thoughts:

1. The cops would not have arbitrarily decided by themselves to stop the kid and remove him from the premises. That would have been done by the meeting organizers. Not being a Lawyer it does strike me as their right to do so.

2. The Cops were firm but resolute. At no time did they seem to lose it, attempt to punch, kick or generally abuse him, until he kicked off. Even then it didn't exactly qualify as a Rodney King moment.

3. The kid is a jackass.

4. As soon as they Cops attempted to escort him away he resisted. Tried to pull away and become pretty animated.

5. At least 2 of the Cops were women, and not big ones at that. He clearly towered over them. I know a lot of women make good cops but when it comes down the rough and tumble, I'm sorry and call me sexist but I don't think they were probably that much help.

6. The kid was a jackass.

7. When he got tazed he was surrounded by people and you could not see what he was doing that warranted it. At least I could not from the clip I saw.

8. It seems to me he got a teeny weeny zap to bring him to his senses. If he had gotten well and truly zapped he would not have been whining 'my god they tazered me' or words to the effect thereof.

9. I am quite an advocate of free speech and I can see to some degree why some would confuse this with a free speech issue. Guy wants to say something, the arm of the Govt come along and remove him etc. But, with the Police being Campus Police I don't think that argument really has any validity. Also, the right to Free Speech gives you the right to say something, not the location. If you come into my house and start calling me a jackass, you have the right to do so, but I am also within my rights to escort you off my property. He could have easily walked outside and continued his rant out there.
I agree.

And if someone calls me a jackass in my home, the escorting will be a lot harsher than what those cops did to the dumb kid who refused to leave in a timely, orderly fashion.

Imagine it even further...your guest is being belligerent in your abode, and you repeatedly ask him to beat it, and he doesn't.

He deserved to be tasered.  It had nothing to do with free speech.  He wasn't saying anything worthwhile anyway.





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« #37 : September 18, 2007, 03:41:48 PM »

It had nothing to do with free speech.  He wasn't saying anything worthwhile anyway.

Then you don't understand what "free speech" means. It has nothing to do with meeting your standards of "worthwhile." Quite the opposite.


Boid Fink

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« #38 : September 18, 2007, 03:47:18 PM »

It had nothing to do with free speech. He wasn't saying anything worthwhile anyway.

Then you don't understand what "free speech" means. It has nothing to do with meeting your standards of "worthwhile." Quite the opposite.


Alright then, fair enough.

But then ask yourself:  "Should I get tasered, or beaten down, for what I am going to say?  Is it worth it?"  And apply it ONLY to that jackasses statements.  Was what he said, or saying, worth all his hassle?  Worth the ticket?  Worth the joly and the harsh escort off premise?

The cops have their job to do, and it makes more sense to me that they tased his sorry butt, and booted him off the property, then it does for them to let this kid tell them what is up...

What is this kid?  A God?

He got what he deserved.  Has nothing to do with free speech, as Spartan alluded to.  He could have taken his case outside, and hollered his rantings and ravings outdoors...when a man in blue tells me to shut up and move, guess what I do?

I don;t get tased.




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« #39 : September 18, 2007, 03:50:50 PM »


When the authorities start telling us what we can or can not say based on the politics of what we say, I hope that a lot of people have the courage to stand up and be tasered.




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« #40 : September 18, 2007, 03:53:51 PM »

I am not allowed to watch youtube at work so there may be other angles that show things I have not seen, so from that perspective I will remain open minded. However, based on what I have seen here are my thoughts:

1. The cops would not have arbitrarily decided by themselves to stop the kid and remove him from the premises. That would have been done by the meeting organizers. Not being a Lawyer it does strike me as their right to do so.

2. The Cops were firm but resolute. At no time did they seem to lose it, attempt to punch, kick or generally abuse him, until he kicked off. Even then it didn't exactly qualify as a Rodney King moment.

3. The kid is a jackass.

4. As soon as they Cops attempted to escort him away he resisted. Tried to pull away and become pretty animated.

5. At least 2 of the Cops were women, and not big ones at that. He clearly towered over them. I know a lot of women make good cops but when it comes down the rough and tumble, I'm sorry and call me sexist but I don't think they were probably that much help.

6. The kid was a jackass.

7. When he got tazed he was surrounded by people and you could not see what he was doing that warranted it. At least I could not from the clip I saw.

8. It seems to me he got a teeny weeny zap to bring him to his senses. If he had gotten well and truly zapped he would not have been whining 'my god they tazered me' or words to the effect thereof.

9. I am quite an advocate of free speech and I can see to some degree why some would confuse this with a free speech issue. Guy wants to say something, the arm of the Govt come along and remove him etc. But, with the Police being Campus Police I don't think that argument really has any validity. Also, the right to Free Speech gives you the right to say something, not the location. If you come into my house and start calling me a jackass, you have the right to do so, but I am also within my rights to escort you off my property. He could have easily walked outside and continued his rant out there.


Fair enough Spartan, I'm glad your keeping an open mind and not coming to any conclusions  before seeing other versions of the tape :-/

Seriously though, when you see other versions I doubt you'll get the full story of what transpired here. Indeed I do disagree with the way the cops handled this and I'm not saying I know the full story. But let me say this.

1) Your or anyone else's definition of a  jackass has the same right to be heard as anyone else.

2) This has nothing to do w/ a free speech issue.

3) The student did resist at some point, however he was clearly under the custody and control of the cops when he was tasered! SIX cops had him on the ground. Which makes the tasering unnecessary and perhaps even punitive. I've read that he was even handcuffed when he was zapped. Though I'm not sure of that. Regardless if they were trying to deescalate the situation tasering someone sure as heck ain't the way to do it. In fact that could cause a real upheaval. Movie theater + yelling fire = stupidity. Same thing here.
 
4) But, WHY was he arrested? He maybe asked uncomfortable questions which Kerry ALLOWED him to do. In fact, Kerry he even responded that he had asked an important question that deserves an answer... though maybe some had a problem hearing that part on the clip because the cops were to busy pawing at this guy. He was upset and I'm not surprised.

This situation was so easily avoided it's silly.

What's clear on the tape is that the cops were ready to apprehend the guy as soon as he finished at the microphone. WHY? It couldn't be that they judged him to be a danger otherwise why did they let him stand there at the podium & continue?  So, if he wasn't a danger then what was it? They were told to remove him perhaps, but by who and for what reason? None of what the cops did makes any sense whatsoever. But it was excessive and stupid, tasers are too frequently used in place of good police work and that is what's happened here.

Boid Fink

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« #41 : September 18, 2007, 03:54:03 PM »


When the authorities start telling us what we can or can not say based on the politics of what we say, I hope that a lot of people have the courage to stand up and be tasered.


Jesus.  Way to state the obvious.  

The point is the kid deserved to be tasered.  There are more ways to get your voice heard than in that ONE forum...espescially if what he says is going to make a change.  Nothing that kid was going to say was going to make us all "more aware" of our surroundings, our condition.

He got zapped, and for that I can't help but laugh.  Espescially when he was pissing and crying about it afterwards...he KNEW it was coming.




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« #42 : September 18, 2007, 03:54:54 PM »

Exactly. He became unruly and a disturbance to the general public. Glad they zapped his butt.

Yes, anyone who doesn't go along with the majority should be tasered. This should be repeated until society is homogeneous.  All independent thought should be quashed.

Nicely played.

Morgan

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« #43 : September 18, 2007, 03:55:15 PM »

I'm sure there were ground rules for the students to follow - ie. ask your question and let the speaker answer your question.
The dude wanted to monopolize/grandstand. I'm guessing the audience came to listen to the US Senator, not a U of F undergrad with a bipolar disorder.  There are expectations for behaving in a public forum. If you want to go on a rant, go out on the quad and act like a lunatic.



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« #44 : September 18, 2007, 04:00:55 PM »

Nothing that kid was going to say was going to make us all "more aware" of our surroundings, our condition.

Again you're relying on your definition of whether or not what the kid had to say was worthwhile. That's not what free speech is about. It's about letting people have their say even when you disagree with them. People shouldn't be silenced and tasered because what they have to say isn't popular, or even because what they have to say is downright stupid.

The kid was down on the ground with cops all over him. Was it really necessary to taser him at that point?


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