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DanTurksGhost

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« : November 13, 2006, 11:38:23 AM »

He's wrong, most GM's have the power to do so.

You are dead, flat wrong. I can think of no GM for any single-owner team in the National Football League that can fire the team's HC without ownership's approval. It just doesn't work that way. If you believe otherwise, then you're just mistaken.

alldaway

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« #1 : November 13, 2006, 11:05:53 AM »

There are only a few I can think of.  Ted Thompson is probably the best example.

DanTurksGhost

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« #2 : November 13, 2006, 11:03:01 AM »

I wouldn't think there are very many GM's, if any, that could fire a coach on his own.

You are correct.

GrudenFan63

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« #3 : November 13, 2006, 11:02:34 AM »

I wouldn't think there are very many GM's, if any, that could fire a coach on his own. With salary ramifications and with it being such a big business, I am sure the VP-P-CEO and so on would have to be consulted.

I don't think Bruce Allen has the authority to fire Gruden, but I think he does have the ability to get the ball rolling. Those are two different actions.

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Orangegone1

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« #4 : November 13, 2006, 11:01:12 AM »

I wouldn't think there are very many GM's, if any, that could fire a coach on his own. With salary ramifications and with it being such a big business, I am sure the VP-P-CEO and so on would have to be consulted.

alldaway

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« #5 : November 13, 2006, 11:00:08 AM »

So people think the Jerry Jones, Lil' Danny Snyder organizational model is the way to go? You go with that.

The Glazers are different in that once they hire people to run the show they lay their hands off.  Blank, Jones, Snyder, and Darth Al on the other hand are involved in trades, drafting of players, and signing of players.

If I see signs the Glazers are going to the Darth Al model I would be concerned but so far they have not been involved with drafts or signing of free agents.

alldaway

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« #6 : November 13, 2006, 10:42:37 AM »


No GM working for the Glazers, past or present and probably future, has/had the power to fire or hire a head coach. None. Period.


Exactly.

GrudenFan63

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« #7 : November 13, 2006, 10:29:41 AM »

If you look at the organization like a state's educational system, the Glazers fill the Commissioner of Education's position. Bruce Allen is a superintendent (there are others on the personnel level, but Allen's the top dog). Jon Gruden is a principal. The members of the staff are the teachers. The players are the students. There is a chain of command, but everyone should hold each other accountable for the failure of the franchise. If Florida becomes last in the nation in terms of student achievement; that's an issue with everyone involved. It's the same with the regression of a football organization.

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DanTurksGhost

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« #8 : November 13, 2006, 10:25:47 AM »

No GM working for the Glazers, past or present and probably future, has/had the power to fire or hire a head coach. None. Period.

The Glazers saw what a mess McKay made of things by disrespecting their wishes in the hiring process in his attempt to force Marvin Lewis down their throats, and they saw him working against the head coach and how divisive and corrosive that abuse of power became. Therefore, they are more comfortable with a HC who has more say in personnel matters than McKay allowed, but they are not comfortable having a HC/GM as a sole individual.

The Glazers like the balance of power they have now. A more involved HC, a strong contracts man as GM, two guys who complement each other well and work WITH one another instead of against.

Who can fire who? Neither could fire either.

cheveliar

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« #9 : November 13, 2006, 10:21:03 AM »

If your organization is strong enough, then accountability doesn't not have to flow up and down your chain of command. To me, it's better that it flow across and parallel to those lines.

What Comrade? Seriously, you can have some lateral level of accountability but authority (which is different than accountibility) has to behas to be hierarchical because there has to be a final word.

If the Glazers have the final word, I'm still puzzled how that makes Bruce a puppet of sorts?  Again it's all about winning, which we aren't doing right now.  I don't think that Bruce having the authority to fire JG solves our problems on the field.  It certain gives you options for next year or whenever it is deemed that JG should be gone.  But I don't think it's relevent today as we face the Kitties...

Without Carl Nix it feels like our running game just took a death blow to the face!


ABuccs Fan

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« #10 : November 13, 2006, 10:09:38 AM »

Simple question, can Allen fire Gruden? Does he have that authority? Answer: no. Allen was brought here to serve Gruden.

My thoughts, exactly!!!
Did McKay fire Wyche? Answer: NO Could McKay fire Dungy? Answer: We don't know. Could McKay hire Lewis? Answer: NO

So what control did the previous GM our team have? Answer:We don't know



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« #11 : November 13, 2006, 10:03:37 AM »

Simple question, can Allen fire Gruden? Does he have that authority? Answer: no. Allen was brought here to serve Gruden.

My thoughts, exactly!!!

cheveliar

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« #12 : November 13, 2006, 09:57:05 AM »

Chev, your point is well taken. However, it's nice to know there is someone who would hold the coach accountable for his actions; or lack of them, when it comes to the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.

If your organization is strong enough, then accountability doesn't not have to flow up and down your chain of command.  To me, it's better that it flow across and parallel to those lines.  Sort of how it used to be on the field as Scott suggested in the last FF...

I liked listening to the relationship that Jon and Ronde have.  I love the fact that they get on each other during a game and hold each other accountable for making plays from their respective positions and influence.

Without Carl Nix it feels like our running game just took a death blow to the face!


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« #13 : November 13, 2006, 09:53:10 AM »

I'm sure every team in the NFL has a different spin on their hierarchy or chain of command.  Is it important that Bruce has the power to fire Jon or is it more important that they have the type of relationship that will enhance the team?
Chev,
You are so right.  Remember when McKay was here and it was time to fire Dungy, that word came from the Glazers.  Just like it will if/when Gruden is fired.  The owners are the final authority/word for those types of decisions.  

If anyone thinks that any GM has total autonomy for those type of actions....with the exception of Dallas where the owner is also the GM....I wish they would share their sources for that info.

Truths:
1.  Never have an argument with an idiot.  They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with their experience.
2.  For some it would be better if they remained silent and be thought a fool than to speak and erase all doubt.

GrudenFan63

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« #14 : November 13, 2006, 09:49:03 AM »

Chev, your point is well taken. However, it's nice to know there is someone who would hold the coach accountable for his actions; or lack of them, when it comes to the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.

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