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Why do people think Allen answers to Gruden?

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DanTurksGhost:

--- Quote from: dalbuc on November 13, 2006, 11:16:40 AM ---He's wrong, most GM's have the power to do so.

--- End quote ---

You are dead, flat wrong. I can think of no GM for any single-owner team in the National Football League that can fire the team's HC without ownership's approval. It just doesn't work that way. If you believe otherwise, then you're just mistaken.

alldaway:
There are only a few I can think of.  Ted Thompson is probably the best example.

DanTurksGhost:

--- Quote from: Orangegone1 on November 13, 2006, 11:01:12 AM ---I wouldn't think there are very many GM's, if any, that could fire a coach on his own.

--- End quote ---

You are correct.

GrudenFan63:

--- Quote from: Orangegone1 on November 13, 2006, 11:01:12 AM ---I wouldn't think there are very many GM's, if any, that could fire a coach on his own. With salary ramifications and with it being such a big business, I am sure the VP-P-CEO and so on would have to be consulted.

--- End quote ---

I don't think Bruce Allen has the authority to fire Gruden, but I think he does have the ability to get the ball rolling. Those are two different actions.

Orangegone1:
I wouldn't think there are very many GM's, if any, that could fire a coach on his own. With salary ramifications and with it being such a big business, I am sure the VP-P-CEO and so on would have to be consulted.

alldaway:

--- Quote from: dalbuc on November 13, 2006, 10:54:46 AM ---So people think the Jerry Jones, Lil' Danny Snyder organizational model is the way to go? You go with that.

--- End quote ---

The Glazers are different in that once they hire people to run the show they lay their hands off.  Blank, Jones, Snyder, and Darth Al on the other hand are involved in trades, drafting of players, and signing of players.

If I see signs the Glazers are going to the Darth Al model I would be concerned but so far they have not been involved with drafts or signing of free agents.

alldaway:


--- Quote from: DanTurksGhost on November 13, 2006, 10:25:47 AM ---No GM working for the Glazers, past or present and probably future, has/had the power to fire or hire a head coach. None. Period.


--- End quote ---

Exactly.

GrudenFan63:
If you look at the organization like a state's educational system, the Glazers fill the Commissioner of Education's position. Bruce Allen is a superintendent (there are others on the personnel level, but Allen's the top dog). Jon Gruden is a principal. The members of the staff are the teachers. The players are the students. There is a chain of command, but everyone should hold each other accountable for the failure of the franchise. If Florida becomes last in the nation in terms of student achievement; that's an issue with everyone involved. It's the same with the regression of a football organization.

DanTurksGhost:
No GM working for the Glazers, past or present and probably future, has/had the power to fire or hire a head coach. None. Period.

The Glazers saw what a mess McKay made of things by disrespecting their wishes in the hiring process in his attempt to force Marvin Lewis down their throats, and they saw him working against the head coach and how divisive and corrosive that abuse of power became. Therefore, they are more comfortable with a HC who has more say in personnel matters than McKay allowed, but they are not comfortable having a HC/GM as a sole individual.

The Glazers like the balance of power they have now. A more involved HC, a strong contracts man as GM, two guys who complement each other well and work WITH one another instead of against.

Who can fire who? Neither could fire either.

cheveliar:

--- Quote from: dalbuc on November 13, 2006, 10:04:35 AM ---
--- Quote from: Cheveliar on November 13, 2006, 09:57:05 AM ---If your organization is strong enough, then accountability doesn't not have to flow up and down your chain of command. To me, it's better that it flow across and parallel to those lines.

--- End quote ---

What Comrade? Seriously, you can have some lateral level of accountability but authority (which is different than accountibility) has to behas to be hierarchical because there has to be a final word.

--- End quote ---

If the Glazers have the final word, I'm still puzzled how that makes Bruce a puppet of sorts?  Again it's all about winning, which we aren't doing right now.  I don't think that Bruce having the authority to fire JG solves our problems on the field.  It certain gives you options for next year or whenever it is deemed that JG should be gone.  But I don't think it's relevent today as we face the Kitties...

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