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DanTurksGhost

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#30 : October 09, 2007, 01:28:28 PM

Shocking for you to play this card.

How so? I'm really not connected to the Parcells circle.

alldaway

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#31 : October 09, 2007, 01:30:58 PM

Parcells is a horrible talent evaluator.


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#32 : October 09, 2007, 01:32:57 PM

Like I said, you guys have more information than I do. I'm not sufficiently connected to the Parcells universe to get a good read on his specific ability to evaluate talent.

i don't have any more information than anybody. i just have Google and Pardon the Interruption .. and I confidently base my opinions on those sources.  ::)

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#33 : October 09, 2007, 01:35:45 PM

Parcells has proven he can build a team full of veterans  based on their loyalty to him.  When he left the Patriots and Jets, both teams were a mess becuase he was shopping the groceries looking for vets that could play in his system.








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#34 : October 09, 2007, 01:43:33 PM

Parcells has proven he can build a team full of veterans based on their loyalty to him.  When he left the Patriots and Jets, both teams were a mess becuase he was shopping the groceries looking for vets that could play in his system.
Significant draft picks while Parcells was in Dallas: Terrence Newman, Jason Whitten, Bradie James, Julius Jones, Patrick Crayton, DeMarcus Ware, and Marion Barber III. By my count 10 of their 22 starters were drafted on Parcells' watch.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

alldaway

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#35 : October 09, 2007, 01:46:44 PM

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Significant draft picks while Parcells was in Dallas: Terrence Newman, Jason Whitten, Bradie James, Julius Jones, Patrick Crayton, DeMarcus Ware, and Marion Barber III. By my count 10 of their 22 starters were drafted on Parcells' watch

Yes becuase Jerry Jones had no say in those picks at all...

If that is the best arguement you can make that Parcells can evaluate talent then I am not impressed.

He left the Jets and Patriots in shambles.  It took a while for both teams to recover.  The obvious difference in Dallas is that Parcells did not have full say over adding/subtracting players. 

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#36 : October 09, 2007, 01:53:13 PM

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Significant draft picks while Parcells was in Dallas: Terrence Newman, Jason Whitten, Bradie James, Julius Jones, Patrick Crayton, DeMarcus Ware, and Marion Barber III. By my count 10 of their 22 starters were drafted on Parcells' watch

Yes becuase Jerry Jones had no say in those picks at all...

If that is the best arguement you can make that Parcells can evaluate talent then I am not impressed.

He left the Jets and Patriots in shambles. It took a while for both teams to recover. The obvious difference in Dallas is that Parcells did not have full say over adding/subtracting players.
So Jerry Jones is the brains behind all this recent success? You may be the only person to ever suggest that. Why did virtually all the players drafted before Parcells got there suck?

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

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#37 : October 09, 2007, 01:57:06 PM

So Jerry Jones is the brains behind all this recent success? You may be the only person to ever suggest that. Why did virtually all the players drafted before Parcells got there suck?

The majority of Rich McKay's draft picks sucked, yet some people don't seem to have a problem calling him a successful talent evaluator. Perhaps one of the best picks under his leadership, Warrick Dunn, wasn't even his choice. He gave into the coach who practically begged him on his knees for Dunn.

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#38 : October 09, 2007, 01:58:49 PM

Ignoring Jerry Jones' influence in the decision making of the make up of the Dallas Cowboys is why I am not buying the arguement. Other than Al Davis, Jerry Jones is a very hands on owner.

Do you want to honestly argue that Parcells was spearheading the way to bring TO to Dallas?  You can try if you wish but I am not sure you can make a compelling arguement about that.

Coaching was the issue with the Cowboys before Parcells arrived not necessarily the talent they had on the team.




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#39 : October 09, 2007, 02:03:26 PM

Dallas was a talent poor team before Parcells arrived. Jerry had his grubby paws all over things and ran that team's talent into the ground. Jerry was the genius who went all Quincy Carter is round 2 for example. Big Bill is a lot of things but he does know talent and he was the big pappa in the talent room. The reason TO was such an issue was that Big Bill never wanted him and that was Jerry trying to recapture the glory.

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.

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#40 : October 09, 2007, 02:16:19 PM

Ignoring Jerry Jones' influence in the decision making of the make up of the Dallas Cowboys is why I am not buying the arguement. Other than Al Davis, Jerry Jones is a very hands on owner.
I repeat: Jerry Jones suddenly started drafting good players once Parcells got there?

Do you want to honestly argue that Parcells was spearheading the way to bring TO to Dallas?  You can try if you wish but I am not sure you can make a compelling arguement about that.
It's well established TO was Jones' project. But I haven't said anything about free agents. As I said 10 of Dallas' 22 starters were drafted on Parcells' watch.

Coaching was the issue with the Cowboys before Parcells arrived not necessarily the talent they had on the team.
As far as I can tell the Cowboys 2007 squad has 4 players that were on Dave Campo's 2002 team so it would appear these aren't the same players who are winning now.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

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#41 : October 09, 2007, 02:20:53 PM

Jones has made mistakes (eg 2 1st round picks for Galloway) but no one is claiming he is a great talent evaluator.

Saying Dallas was a talent poor team before Parcells arrived is misleading.  Their defense without question had talent, but their offense needed some help.  The Quincy pick is what many remember as to what held Dallas back for quite a while on offense.  Even so Parcells' strength is working with what he has even if it was with an average/below average QB.  Parcells can work with the talent on a team and turn them into an effective unit.

Parcells is known for winning now not necessarily building for the future for a football team.  That is why the Glazers sought Parcells first when they fired Dungy so Parcells could take a veteran Bucs team that was assembled and try to win a Super Bowl.  It so happens the Glazers were jilted by Parcells and went with a younger version in Jon Gruden.





alldaway

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#42 : October 09, 2007, 02:24:50 PM

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I repeat: Jerry Jones suddenly started drafting good players once Parcells got there?

Are you arguing the Cowboys defense was never good before Bill Parcells arrived?  Somebody had to assemble the talent on the Cowboys (specifically the defense).

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It's well established TO was Jones' project. But I haven't said anything about free agents. As I said 10 of Dallas' 22 starters were drafted on Parcells'/Jones' watch.

Fixed for accuracy.

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As far as I can tell the Cowboys 2007 squad has 4 players that were on Dave Campo's 2002 team so it would appear these aren't the same players who are winning now.

And how many players of the 2007 Bucs are left from the 2002 Super Bowl team?  Weak arguement.

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#43 : October 09, 2007, 02:30:15 PM

Saying Dallas was a talent poor team before Parcells arrived is misleading.  Their defense without question had talent, but their offense needed some help.  The Quincy pick is what many remember as to what held Dallas back for quite a while on offense.  Even so Parcells' strength is working with what he has even if it was with an average/below average QB.  Parcells can work with the talent on a team and turn them into an effective unit.
That's true regarding the 2003 team he took to the playoffs with Carter at QB. It was mostly the same players as Dave Campo had the year before. But as I said right now there are 4 players left from Campo's regime so Parcells was able to nearly completely re-make that team and now they're better.

Parcells is known for winning now not necessarily building for the future for a football team.  That is why the Glazers sought Parcells first when they fired Dungy so Parcells could take a veteran Bucs team that was assembled and try to win a Super Bowl.  It so happens the Glazers were jilted by Parcells and went with a younger version in Jon Gruden.
I wouldn't say he doesn't build for the future. It is a problem that he usually doesn't leave under the best of circumstances and he is so controlling there's a power vacuum when he's gone. But the Giants went 8-8 the year after he left and 11-5in the tird year he was gone, the Pats went 10-6 and 9-7 the two years after he left, the Jets went 9-7 and 10-6 the next two years and the Cowboys are currently 5-0 in their first year.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

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#44 : October 09, 2007, 02:35:21 PM

Are you arguing the Cowboys defense was never good before Bill Parcells arrived? Somebody had to assemble the talent on the Cowboys (specifically the defense).
Yes the defense was pretty good. No team is completely devoid of talent, no matter who is doing the picking. Even when the Bengals were horrible they still had Corey Dillion and Willie Anderson, among others. Is Mike Brown great because of that?

And how many players of the 2007 Bucs are left from the 2002 Super Bowl team? Weak arguement.
Not many and they are noticably worse than the 2002 version. The Cowboys are noticably better so I don't see what you're saying.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.
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