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jerseybucsfan

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#225 : November 01, 2007, 09:13:55 PM

Well said, caradoc. SOME picks have to be more than one-year wonders. Not all, but certainly some.

In Verner We Trust

dbucfan

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#226 : November 01, 2007, 09:28:20 PM

I think thats the difference between this Bornsbuc guy and I. I root for the Bucs not for Dungy, I knew it was time for him to go when we lost to Philly and I feel like now is time for Gruden to go. Too many drafts and too many busts.

That and a mind that can offer a cogent thought not based on an "I hate Gruden for everything" - bornbutt is nothing more than a troll-like at this point. 

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

BornaBuc47

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#227 : November 01, 2007, 11:16:12 PM

I'm a troll because Gruden can't get the job done? Pathetic. I'm just using Dungy as an example of HOW TO get the job done. It's no coincidence that their drafts are solid now and their team is winning. Their number 1 receiver has been injured for several weeks. They lost their starting DT before the season started. They lost their RB for a couple of weeks. Injury doesn't seem to slow them down. Both sides of the ball there are solid, and to say that they won it in spite of him is a joke. While they're looking at undefeated seasons YOU'RE talking about being content with 4-4 and your excuse is that our punt returner, our 6th WR and our former 1st rounder who hasn't done crap got injured. Our starting RB got injured, that's it. That's the excuse your going to use. Pathetic. By the way, our defense is ranked 8th in total defense right now. So what's changed? Defense is still solid and our defensive coordinator is still here. What's changed? Gruden/Allen taking over the draft room and offense. That's what's changed.

Bucfanut-You can't have a discussion without using foul language and completely uncalled for insults. Behavior like that means you are ignorant and need to stay in school and you're probably working a crap job somewhere. You can believe what you would like about your coach. I happen to believe he isn't getting the job done. Maybe you're used to losing in life and don't mind it. I do. I enjoy being a powerhouse and winning. This is the last time that I'm going to respond to any of your posts. You're just a punk kid who doesn't deserve my time.

Quote
This is a fair criticism. It took 4 1/2 years, but in the last 10 games Dungy has done more for that defense with fewer resources than Gruden has ever done for this offense.

From 12 Pro Bowlers to 0-We got hosed alright


Buc_Sid

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#228 : November 01, 2007, 11:20:13 PM

Where is Kiffin's blame?

Bingo. 

BornaBuc47

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#229 : November 02, 2007, 08:31:11 AM

2003-18th ranked Offense, 4th ranked defense
2004-23rd ranked offense, 10th ranked defense
2005-20th ranked offense, 8th ranked defense
2006-31st ranked offense, 21st ranked defense


This is why Gruden is on the hot seat and gets the blame. The defense has rebounded now that the offense isn't turning the ball over several times a game like 2006(-11 turnover ratio in 2006, +1 in 2007) but the offense still isn't moving the ball consistently and is ranked in the 20's in scoring. They've only been moving the ball over the last two games consistently which has gotten their ranking up. Before they were in the 20's in both. Unfortunately when you don't score TDs you don't win.

50/116 3rd down conversion rate
7/11 4th down conversion rate. They're going for it because they have to because they know our defense will hold them and when it's 4th and inches in our territory it's smarter to go for it then to think that you'll get another chance in our territory, not because it's easy.

 4-11-JAC 10     (1:51) 3-A.Podlesh punts 20 yards to JAC 30, Center-88-J.Zelenka, downed by JAC-23-J.Fudge. Punt deflected by 85-M. Stovall
Tampa Bay Buccaneers at 01:39
1-10-JAC 30    (1:39) 34-E.Graham left end to JAC 32 for -2 yards (99-M.Stroud).
2-12-JAC 32    (:59) 7-J.Garcia pass incomplete short right to 84-J.Galloway (27-R.Mathis).
Timeout #1 by JAC at 00:51.
3-12-JAC 32    (:51) (Shotgun) 7-J.Garcia pass short left to 84-J.Galloway to JAC 24 for 8 yards (31-A.Glenn).
4-4-JAC 24    (:11) (Field Goal formation) 3-M.Bryant 42 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-48-A.Economos, Holder-9-J.Bidwell.
JAX 17    TB 23    Plays: 4    Possession: 1:34

Kicking field goals instead of scoring TDs when your defense and special teams gets you the ball at the other t ea's 30 is another thing that LOSES games.


From 12 Pro Bowlers to 0-We got hosed alright


Feel Real Good

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#230 : November 02, 2007, 08:32:33 AM

I'm a troll because Gruden can't get the job done? Pathetic. I'm just using Dungy as an example of HOW TO get the job done. It's no coincidence that their drafts are solid now and their team is winning. Their number 1 receiver has been injured for several weeks. They lost their starting DT before the season started. They lost their RB for a couple of weeks. Injury doesn't seem to slow them down. Both sides of the ball there are solid, and to say that they won it in spite of him is a joke. While they're looking at undefeated seasons YOU'RE talking about being content with 4-4 and your excuse is that our punt returner, our 6th WR and our former 1st rounder who hasn't done crap got injured. Our starting RB got injured, that's it. That's the excuse your going to use. Pathetic. By the way, our defense is ranked 8th in total defense right now. So what's changed? Defense is still solid and our defensive coordinator is still here. What's changed? Gruden/Allen taking over the draft room and offense. That's what's changed.
Dungy has been a good coach for a long time but Bill Polian has been a good GM for a lot longer. You have to give him at least 90% of the credit for their personnel evaluation.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

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#231 : November 02, 2007, 09:00:06 AM

Gruden was brought in here to bring offense to Tampa. Of course the overall goal is to win Championships. Our defense was stout and what we were lacking was an offense that could score points and win in the playoffs. You may like to think in your world that our window was closing but the core of players we had on defense are still playing good football. We had about 5 more years if we had kept the players we had to stay in the window as you put it. Our drafting was better as well under Dungy and McKay. They were by far the the best coach/GM combo we've ever had. We were consistent Super Bowl contenders with them and unfortunately the town and the owners got used to winning but not getting to the Super Bowl so they decided to try and bring an offense to town. For years Dungy tired to get Indy's offensive coordinator to come to Tampa but he wouldn't leave. Dungy made the attempts unsuccessfully. Dungy also kept an offensive and defensive coordinator and used them instead of trying to do it all himself. His coordinators have gone on the be successful head coaches in some of the biggest NFL towns. Gruden on the other hand hasn't trained anybody including young players and coaches and has angered his assistant coaches by not letting them move on to head coaching positions.


None of Dungy's offensive coordinators have gone on to be head coaches.  What in the world are you talking about??

dbucfan

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#232 : November 02, 2007, 09:02:13 AM

I'm a troll because Gruden can't get the job done?

No you are a troll bc everything under the sun is better elsewhere with someone else, and nothing done here is ever remotely correct - unless it involves Shaun King playing or Jon Gruden getting fired.  And pathetic does cover it.  

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

Biggs3535

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#233 : November 02, 2007, 09:35:25 AM

I think thats the difference between this Bornsbuc guy and I. I root for the Bucs

I have never seen a Bucs fan so happy to lose to the Jags as you were.  Bumping a thread saying Jax would win DURING the game was not a act of any true Bucs fan.



BornaBuc47

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#234 : November 02, 2007, 11:28:03 AM

I'm a troll because Gruden can't get the job done? Pathetic. I'm just using Dungy as an example of HOW TO get the job done. It's no coincidence that their drafts are solid now and their team is winning. Their number 1 receiver has been injured for several weeks. They lost their starting DT before the season started. They lost their RB for a couple of weeks. Injury doesn't seem to slow them down. Both sides of the ball there are solid, and to say that they won it in spite of him is a joke. While they're looking at undefeated seasons YOU'RE talking about being content with 4-4 and your excuse is that our punt returner, our 6th WR and our former 1st rounder who hasn't done crap got injured. Our starting RB got injured, that's it. That's the excuse your going to use. Pathetic. By the way, our defense is ranked 8th in total defense right now. So what's changed? Defense is still solid and our defensive coordinator is still here. What's changed? Gruden/Allen taking over the draft room and offense. That's what's changed.
Dungy has been a good coach for a long time but Bill Polian has been a good GM for a lot longer. You have to give him at least 90% of the credit for their personnel evaluation.

Then Dungy deserves 90% of the credit for developing these young players. Especially on defense. Gruden deserves 90% of the credit as well. Difference is the Colts are undefeated and in 1st place and we're 4-4 and slipping.

From 12 Pro Bowlers to 0-We got hosed alright


biggbucbrew

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#235 : November 02, 2007, 11:30:56 AM

I'm a troll because Gruden can't get the job done? Pathetic. I'm just using Dungy as an example of HOW TO get the job done. It's no coincidence that their drafts are solid now and their team is winning. Their number 1 receiver has been injured for several weeks. They lost their starting DT before the season started. They lost their RB for a couple of weeks. Injury doesn't seem to slow them down. Both sides of the ball there are solid, and to say that they won it in spite of him is a joke. While they're looking at undefeated seasons YOU'RE talking about being content with 4-4 and your excuse is that our punt returner, our 6th WR and our former 1st rounder who hasn't done crap got injured. Our starting RB got injured, that's it. That's the excuse your going to use. Pathetic. By the way, our defense is ranked 8th in total defense right now. So what's changed? Defense is still solid and our defensive coordinator is still here. What's changed? Gruden/Allen taking over the draft room and offense. That's what's changed.
Dungy has been a good coach for a long time but Bill Polian has been a good GM for a lot longer. You have to give him at least 90% of the credit for their personnel evaluation.

Then Dungy deserves 90% of the credit for developing these young players. Especially on defense. Gruden deserves 90% of the credit as well. Difference is the Colts are undefeated and in 1st place and we're 4-4 and slipping.

I guess you better get your Colts jersey out, cuz Grudens not going anywhere. He's gonna be here a while. LOL


Feel Real Good

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#236 : November 02, 2007, 11:34:29 AM

I'm a troll because Gruden can't get the job done? Pathetic. I'm just using Dungy as an example of HOW TO get the job done. It's no coincidence that their drafts are solid now and their team is winning. Their number 1 receiver has been injured for several weeks. They lost their starting DT before the season started. They lost their RB for a couple of weeks. Injury doesn't seem to slow them down. Both sides of the ball there are solid, and to say that they won it in spite of him is a joke. While they're looking at undefeated seasons YOU'RE talking about being content with 4-4 and your excuse is that our punt returner, our 6th WR and our former 1st rounder who hasn't done crap got injured. Our starting RB got injured, that's it. That's the excuse your going to use. Pathetic. By the way, our defense is ranked 8th in total defense right now. So what's changed? Defense is still solid and our defensive coordinator is still here. What's changed? Gruden/Allen taking over the draft room and offense. That's what's changed.
Dungy has been a good coach for a long time but Bill Polian has been a good GM for a lot longer. You have to give him at least 90% of the credit for their personnel evaluation.

Then Dungy deserves 90% of the credit for developing these young players. Especially on defense. Gruden deserves 90% of the credit as well. Difference is the Colts are undefeated and in 1st place and we're 4-4 and slipping.
Agree. The way that defense is playing with only three semi-blue chip players (Freeney, Sanders, and Jackson) is quite remarkable.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.
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