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DanTurksGhost

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« : November 14, 2006, 11:33:06 PM »

Certainly the current state of this team's record makes it ripe for debate as to where the problem lies. Coaching? The QB? Leadership? The OL? Frankly, there are lots of problems. But in a nutshell, I see the primary problem with this team being the real lack of a handful of impact 5th, 6th, and 7th year players on the roster. I'm talking about players that were drafted and developed in the Buccaneers system so that they're really coming into their own as guys who are a good fit, experienced, and producing at a high level.

Scan the roster and try and find those guys and it's really difficult to come up with many. Ellis Wyms is probably a candidate to be one of those, Ryan Nece is something of a question mark, and Jermaine Philips certainly doesn't qualify. So who else is there? Nobody.

And where does that leave the team? Well, there should be a group of those guys ready to propel this team to 3-4 years of really competitive, contending football. From their 5th through their 8th seasons, the Bucs should be leaning on a strong group of players they've developed to form the solid core of the team on both sides of the ball.

Looking ahead, only Dewayne White looks to be on track to be that guy. Torrie Cox and Sean Mahan certainly don't appear to be on the same track. There are reasons for that situation of course, including lack of draft picks and poor drafting and possible bad personnel/contract decisions as well. Unfortunately for the Buccaneers, only better personnel decisions, more picks, and time will fix it.

It can be improved by trying to find guys like that from other teams and plucking them in free agency. In that vein they did well with Bidwell and Hovan, so hopefully they'll be able to find a few of those sorts of guys in FA this year, now that they'll have more money to spend.

JavaBuc

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« #1 : November 14, 2006, 11:52:42 PM »

The signings of Steussie, Deese, Stinchcomb and Garner were killers.   

DanTurksGhost

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« #2 : November 14, 2006, 11:54:28 PM »

The signings of Steussie, Deese, Stinchcomb and Garner were killers.   

Those really did set them back.

Boid Fink

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« #3 : November 15, 2006, 12:48:51 AM »

Well if they find these guys, that are in the mid years, doesn't it take them time to adjust?  Isn't that a ready made excuse should they not pan out immediately?

All I got for this is Lance Briggs.  Nate Clements is another.

After that, WTH are they going to do?

It is not about the mid years.  It is about having useable talent.


Ladyfan

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« #4 : November 15, 2006, 09:01:03 AM »

Very thoughtful.  It makes sense too.  In the business of football, Tampa has been behind for a number of years starting with Rich McKay era caps and ending with working off the trade picks for Gruden.  That did leave a gap of quality choices available to us those years...that plus not planning better for defensive players in draft.


mjs020294

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« #5 : November 15, 2006, 09:12:03 AM »

We have too many young players and a group of ageing players, not the bets mix.  Athletes peak in their late twenties and we are completely deficient in that age group.  Now if they can rebuild the D with a few good drafts and sensible FA additions, while the young O player mature, we could be fairly competitive in a couple of years.


DanTurksGhost

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« #6 : November 15, 2006, 09:19:10 AM »

We have too many young players and a group of ageing players, not the bets mix.  Athletes peak in their late twenties and we are completely deficient in that age group.  Now if they can rebuild the D with a few good drafts and sensible FA additions, while the young O player mature, we could be fairly competitive in a couple of years.

Exactly. They're either too young or too old right now, but in reading my first post in this thread you'll see it isn't just about the age but the age and experience. Most of the guys that should be entering their prime years for productivity who should now be matured in the system either aren't there at all, or aren't good enough.

gone

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« #7 : November 15, 2006, 10:07:49 AM »

The Core group should be 4-6 years into the system, hitting their prime.  Mixed with a some younger guys and some older.  We're missing that core across the board.  On offense we're also missing the older guys.  While there are a couple of the older guys, there's nobody that has a strong personality.  Nobody takes charge out there.  Simms couldn't Grads can't yet (may never, who knows), Joey is too soft, God alone knows what Hilliard says, just nobody there taking charge, that's why these guys on O look lost out there sometimes.  No player leadership.  Sidelines with the coaches is fine, but you need leaders on the field.  I'd put that as more important right now than the age breakdown...

keeponbucn

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« #8 : November 15, 2006, 10:14:00 AM »

We're dealing with a team that won a SB on the back-side of their peak. Those of us fans that live in reality knew it would come and aren't insane at this point. Those that live in la la land and still think Lynch and Sapp should be here and Alstott should carry the ball more are really having a hard time letting go. Those times are over, it's going to take more rough times to build a team to be competitive again. It took forever before, the Bucs mortgaged the future to win a SB, they accomplished that and are now feeling the pain.

Don't get it twisted, the SB makes it worth it. There is no questioning that. Ask an Eagle fan what he'd rather have.

Look at Baltimore, they haven't been the same since the 2000 SB. Now, after 6 years they're competitive again.

DanTurksGhost

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« #9 : November 15, 2006, 10:23:49 AM »

No player leadership.  Sidelines with the coaches is fine, but you need leaders on the field.  I'd put that as more important right now than the age breakdown...

Right. And when you have a good core of those guys in their prime years, there's a good chance those much-needed player leaders emerge from that group.

DanTurksGhost

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« #10 : November 15, 2006, 10:24:44 AM »

We're dealing with a team that won a SB on the back-side of their peak. Those of us fans that live in reality knew it would come and aren't insane at this point. Those that live in la la land and still think Lynch and Sapp should be here and Alstott should carry the ball more are really having a hard time letting go. Those times are over, it's going to take more rough times to build a team to be competitive again. It took forever before, the Bucs mortgaged the future to win a SB, they accomplished that and are now feeling the pain.

Don't get it twisted, the SB makes it worth it. There is no questioning that. Ask an Eagle fan what he'd rather have.

Look at Baltimore, they haven't been the same since the 2000 SB. Now, after 6 years they're competitive again.

And the owners fully understand this as well.

cheveliar

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« #11 : November 15, 2006, 10:26:15 AM »

You have to pay for winning the Super Bowl.  You will rarely keep all those players to make another run at it.  Unless you are NE.  The cap makes you do that.  We have people raving or hating D. White but if he gets away and goes to another team and blows up, we lost in that deal.  Conversely if he stays and becomes the guy some think he will we win.  Not to mention if we give him some grip and he turns into Marcus Jones, God forbid...

Without Carl Nix it feels like our running game just took a death blow to the face!


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« #12 : November 15, 2006, 01:07:57 PM »

The reason Baltimore was able to keep it up was that they were able to unload lots of contracts of older players (better GM) without paying for it the next three to four years...and they had draft picks.  This enabled them to sign new talented free agents in their prime and pick up some nice young players to add to the mix.  We had neither...We had no top draft picks and not much money...Therefore, you can't compare our situation to theirs...

Rusty

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« #13 : November 15, 2006, 04:12:37 PM »

Cap hell+no draft picks+old defense+young/inexperienced offense+experienced coaches leaving=2and7.

                \'Every day above ground is a good day\'

bucDsystem

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« #14 : November 15, 2006, 06:43:48 PM »

We're dealing with a team that won a SB on the back-side of their peak. Those of us fans that live in reality knew it would come and aren't insane at this point. Those that live in la la land and still think Lynch and Sapp should be here and Alstott should carry the ball more are really having a hard time letting go. Those times are over, it's going to take more rough times to build a team to be competitive again. It took forever before, the Bucs mortgaged the future to win a SB, they accomplished that and are now feeling the pain.

Don't get it twisted, the SB makes it worth it. There is no questioning that. Ask an Eagle fan what he'd rather have.

Look at Baltimore, they haven't been the same since the 2000 SB. Now, after 6 years they're competitive again.

baltimore is the worst example you could use... all baltimore has needed is a QB which they finally went and got in FA and still the jury is out on them going far in the playoffs


to win...you must envision victory -devise a plan -and then have the guts to destroy anything that stands in your way
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