The main problem with this team, as I see it

[alldaway]

The Bucs have poured countless of resources on offense way before 2002 though.  But 2002 McKay and Gruden brought in a lot of players on offense and it paid off.

[DanTurksGhost]

Let's be clear, until this year we ran a Super Bowl calibre defense every year. The problem hasn't been that we've got no talent on the D. We don't need to shed players to get better.

Of course. Two-thirds of the salary cap has been devoted to the defense. And they do need to shed players that are taking up valuable roster and salary cap space. Fortunately, they managed to unload one of those bloated contracts already this year. And as far as draft picks go, two firsts and two seconds bought the fans a championship, but the bill for that becomes due at some point.

[flyinbuc]

Its Grudens fault he cut larry brackins..  idiot

[flyinbuc]

Yeah but the notion that you have to have those middle aged players to win isn't true.

3rd year WR's should be good. Second year RB's are money in the bank. 4th year ROT's should be good. Second year OG's are fine and even rookie OL are fine (ask the Jets about doing it with their two rookies). Simms was a 4th year QB and that is prime friggin' time. On the offense there is no "age" reason we stink, or did at the start of the year before you break out the Gradkowski reason. Might all those "young" player grow into better players, sure, but there's no reason that mix should be 31st based on their age.

The problem isn't a lack of players of the right age, it is that our 3rd year WR, 4th year LOT, rookie OL, 4th year QB and 2nd year RB have all sucked rocks.

Sorry dude you are way to quick to throw Caddy under the bus you remember T jones and his troubles at the start of his career?  Clayton IMO is a simislar situation he will star for someone else if we give up on him

[Itchalot]

The signings of Steussie, Deese, Stinchcomb and Garner were killers.

Why?  We didn't have any draft picks anyway. We didn't trade draft picks away for those players. So how did the signing of those guys keep us from having the players that were drafted and developed in our system?

So now they finally get draft picks and so they actually make some decent picks.

Yeah but those rookies suck.

Yeah they suck because they are rookies! Gah! Aflac!

I have lost a ton of respect for my fellow Bucs fans this year. They are whiners. They are what have you done for me lately.  They drool over players like Alstott and Lynch but don't understand the concept of pulling for a team, the team they have now.  About three months ago the coach was the greatest thing since sliced bread.  Now after half a season he is the antichrist.  They want to fire a coach without having any thought whatsoever as to whether its a good idea. They just want to get justice for a losing season and for all the things they think Gruden has done in the past. They are coming out of the woodwork. I wish they would go back into the woodwork.

Bucs fans, you are disgracing yourself. You are proving that TIM BROWN WAS RIGHT!  You are a bunch of idiots basically.  I love the Bucs. I just wish we could import some fans from Chicago or Green Bay, fans who know football.  Hey I'll take some bandwagon jumpers. It has to be an improvement. 

Am I talking about all Bucs fans?  No. But if the shoe fits wear it.

[TURBO]

I have lost a ton of respect for my fellow Bucs fans this year. They are whiners. They are what have you done for me lately.  They drool over players like Alstott and Lynch but don't understand the concept of pulling for a team, the team they have now.  About three months ago the coach was the greatest thing since sliced bread.  Now after half a season he is the antichrist.  They want to fire a coach without having any thought whatsoever as to whether its a good idea. They just want to get justice for a losing season and for all the things they think Gruden has done in the past. They are coming out of the woodwork. I wish they would go back into the woodwork.


Am I talking about all Bucs fans?  No. But if the shoe fits wear it.

true, very true...to be honest, it is hard to even read this board lately.  Just sick and tired of the bashing negative attitudes.

I'll take the lombardi and crap filled seasons to follow any and every day.

Given time, Gruden will right the ship.

[DanTurksGhost]

Gruden has done no better and has been almost entirely worse than those offenses depsite having more talent.

Other than that whole "Super Bowl" thingy.

[InChuckyITrust]

I agree with Dal, these are all just excuses.  I dont want to hear about cap hell, blah blah blah.  Thats over and done with.  This is JONs offense and its not working.  Produce or get out of town.

[DanTurksGhost]

Yes, now let's get back to that whole building a great offense thingy and stop living in the past.

The building is underway and next year is the lynchpin year in the current plan.

[cheveliar]

I agree with Dal, these are all just excuses.  I dont want to hear about cap hell, blah blah blah.  Thats over and done with.  This is JONs offense and its not working.  Produce or get out of town.

It's over and done with and next year we reap the benefits from having dealt with it...you don't have to hear it, but that's the reality of cap hell and winning a SB.  You have to pay.  The system is not setup for dynasties anymore.  You get your SB within a window then you pay for it...Trick is having stability throughout and well beyond the run so that your plan or philosophy works...whatever that maybe

[keeponbucn]

I agree with Dal, these are all just excuses.  I dont want to hear about cap hell, blah blah blah.  Thats over and done with.  This is JONs offense and its not working.  Produce or get out of town.

It's over and done with and next year we reap the benefits from having dealt with it...you don't have to hear it, but that's the reality of cap hell and winning a SB.  You have to pay.  The system is not setup for dynasties anymore.  You get your SB within a window then you pay for it...Trick is having stability throughout and well beyond the run so that your plan or philosophy works...whatever that maybe

ahhh, the voice of reason.

[JavaBuc]

Give the Bucs back the 2 number ones and 2 number twos they had to give up to get Gruden and things are drastically different.   NO other team had to pay a price like that.   I blame Dungy for where we are right now.   Had he gotten the job done, we wouldn't have had to give up all those high draft picks.

[keeponbucn]

It's over and done with and next year we reap the benefits from having dealt with it...you don't have to hear it, but that's the reality of cap hell and winning a SB. You have to pay. The system is not setup for dynasties anymore. You get your SB within a window then you pay for it...Trick is having stability throughout and well beyond the run so that your plan or philosophy works...whatever that maybe

Cap hell, oh please. TEN had cap hell where they shed all their best players. We've been able to sign guys and keep our core of players around. PIT and NE have lost more good players in the last 3 years than we have. The Grudenistas chirp this line o' dog leavings out like it is religion but it ain't truth.

Core players on the defense, yes. The instability at the QB has been the main problem over the past few years. It's the biggest issue and started in 2003.

[cheveliar]

It's over and done with and next year we reap the benefits from having dealt with it...you don't have to hear it, but that's the reality of cap hell and winning a SB. You have to pay. The system is not setup for dynasties anymore. You get your SB within a window then you pay for it...Trick is having stability throughout and well beyond the run so that your plan or philosophy works...whatever that maybe

Cap hell, oh please. TEN had cap hell where they shed all their best players. We've been able to sign guys and keep our core of players around. PIT and NE have lost more good players in the last 3 years than we have. The Grudenistas chirp this line o' dog leavings out like it is religion but it ain't truth.

The haters fail to realize that we won the SB, struck while it was hot, then went to a totally different philosophy.  When you have a different way of doing things you want players that do it your way.  The purge is still in effect, the biggest of it coming, obviously, at the end of the season.  I'm not saying that Bruce and JG will spend the money properly as they've had their issues recruiting the right talent.  But I think they deserve their shot at it...

[acacius]

Where we've had our problem is with a grossly disfunctional offense that has consumed draft pick and resources since 2002 and gotten us nowhere.

I think you mispelled "2000" there.  Or arguably "1997".