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alldaway

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#105 : November 15, 2006, 03:42:45 PM

The offense looks soooooooo much better with Grads compared to Simms.  This should not even be up to debate.  With that said I would like to see Simms re-signed but some team will offer him big money.

alldaway

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#106 : November 15, 2006, 04:03:31 PM

however I have never seen Bruce have the ability to get us out of a hole yet....

The games may be ugly to watch this year.  But one thing I can say confidently is that I watch all of them.



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#107 : November 15, 2006, 04:07:47 PM

however I have never seen Bruce have the ability to get us out of a hole yet....

The games may be ugly to watch this year. But one thing I can say confidently is that I watch all of them.

So do I no matter how bad they are...we will see as this season progresses how many of those people that have been saying "well I have always been a fan" show up.

keeponbucn

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#108 : November 15, 2006, 03:54:09 PM

Alligator arms...watch the games again on Tivo...yes there were some passes that were missed. However Chris did hit the majority of them in stride onkly to watch them hit the ground. The WR were not sharp and really still arnt

And Gradkowski was victimized multiple times in the game vs NYG by big time drops, and what should have been a solid comeback victory against the Saints was blown by special teams allowing Reggie Bush to run back a punt for a TD. Simms may have a prettier deep ball, but he was also intercepted at an alarming rate. You can't simply pick and choose parts of his game and say because of that one aspect he would have beaten this team or that team.

Therefore, there really isn't much basis to say uncategorically that had Simms played on MNF the Bucs would have won.
His INTs were not usually from errant deep passes.

Bounces of of feet, blocked passes at the LOS, slinging a twenty yarder into Chris McCalisters arm, a quick out to Clayton.

His deep balls were prettier, and they are actually more effective, and that is the entire basis of this argument.

The only thing GRads has over Simms, IMO, is an ability to run for 5 yards.

What happens if GRuden gets fired? Do the Bucs run the WeCoOf again? Not likely. And in that instance, I would rather see Simms in a shotgun.


and a qucker drop, release, decision-making, etc.

I'm not sure how anyone can sit here and say differently. Every concern about Grads is fixable, Simms problems aren't and huge red flags.

I couldn't believe the difference in pace to this offense once Grads was running it. Totally different speed, not so deliberate.

That quicker release is good for getting a pass batted every 23 attempts. Simms was getting his batted 1 every 16. Not that different.

Plus Grads trips over his own QUICK feet about once or twice every game.

The offense had not scored a TD in FOREVER, so the deliberation, the release, the decision making is not only hard to trust, but not feasible. Face it, Grads is not making this team go any better. Now that is an illusion.


you're missing the point. You can expect an offense being run by a rookie to struggle for bulks of time, you have to expect that.
I would hope a rookie that's played all of 6 games wouldn't move the offense better than a 4 year QB in the same system......wait, yes he is.

The offense has more yards/game, more points/game, less TO's/game, and has increased the TOP under GRads. There is no argument, Grads is by far running this offense better than Simms. He has many areas to work on but much less than Simms does. The deep balls will come, bet that.

Just think what would've happened is Simms was thronw into the fire by the 4th game his rookie year. Oh god I wouldn't even want to think about that. it would've been an atrocitiy.

We all have our opinions, that's why this is a beautiful place but reality is Grads is better for this offense. Anyone who's denies that isn't thinking clearly. 



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#109 : November 15, 2006, 04:00:45 PM

The offense looks soooooooo much better with Grads compared to Simms. This should not even be up to debate. With that said I would like to see Simms re-signed but some team will offer him big money.

With all due repsect all da way...what have you seen so far in the offense that would lead you to believe we are much better now than were were with Chris? Chris Simms brought  us from a hole and left his spleen on the field to get this team ahead in that Panther game. I havent seen Gradkowski pull us from out of a hole yet....We kept competitive in the Bengals game and the Eagles game was all defense...however I have never seen Bruce have the ability to get us out of a hole yet....Chris has many many many times over....Look at the Redskins game last year during the season and the dropped pass from like 30 yards out by Shepard in the playoff game. Hands down he deserves a second chance unless Gradkowski sets fire to this offense and we all of a sudden become competitive.

I think the Defense would rather have #2 back IMHO

Yes they would have to go in on a INT sometimes but at least there werte drives where he would produce points

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#110 : November 15, 2006, 04:10:21 PM

Hands down he deserves a second chance unless Gradkowski sets fire to this offense and we all of a sudden become competitive.

You really need to go back and watch last seasons games.  Analyse the stats as well, they are not great by any means.  We had the number one D in the NFL, no injuries, made the FGs and rode our luck........practically any QB in the NFL would have had a winning percentage under the same set of circumstances.

Some of you are way too infatuated with what was a really POOR 2005 offense.  We need to move on and get better, and that is most likely without Simms.  Will Grads to the answer, who knows?  The experts seem fairly positive about him, so either you are all geniuses OR people like Gruden and Hackett don't know what they are talking about.....hmmmmmmm LMAO



BTW - utspartan, you have zero credability on any football subject after your constant pimping of Larry Brackins to a sickening degree.   ;)


Boid Fink

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#111 : November 15, 2006, 04:12:09 PM

Alligator arms...watch the games again on Tivo...yes there were some passes that were missed. However Chris did hit the majority of them in stride onkly to watch them hit the ground. The WR were not sharp and really still arnt

And Gradkowski was victimized multiple times in the game vs NYG by big time drops, and what should have been a solid comeback victory against the Saints was blown by special teams allowing Reggie Bush to run back a punt for a TD. Simms may have a prettier deep ball, but he was also intercepted at an alarming rate. You can't simply pick and choose parts of his game and say because of that one aspect he would have beaten this team or that team.

Therefore, there really isn't much basis to say uncategorically that had Simms played on MNF the Bucs would have won.
His INTs were not usually from errant deep passes.

Bounces of of feet, blocked passes at the LOS, slinging a twenty yarder into Chris McCalisters arm, a quick out to Clayton.

His deep balls were prettier, and they are actually more effective, and that is the entire basis of this argument.

The only thing GRads has over Simms, IMO, is an ability to run for 5 yards.

What happens if GRuden gets fired? Do the Bucs run the WeCoOf again? Not likely. And in that instance, I would rather see Simms in a shotgun.


and a qucker drop, release, decision-making, etc.

I'm not sure how anyone can sit here and say differently. Every concern about Grads is fixable, Simms problems aren't and huge red flags.

I couldn't believe the difference in pace to this offense once Grads was running it. Totally different speed, not so deliberate.

That quicker release is good for getting a pass batted every 23 attempts. Simms was getting his batted 1 every 16. Not that different.

Plus Grads trips over his own QUICK feet about once or twice every game.

The offense had not scored a TD in FOREVER, so the deliberation, the release, the decision making is not only hard to trust, but not feasible. Face it, Grads is not making this team go any better. Now that is an illusion.


you're missing the point. You can expect an offense being run by a rookie to struggle for bulks of time, you have to expect that.
I would hope a rookie that's played all of 6 games wouldn't move the offense better than a 4 year QB in the same system......wait, yes he is.

The offense has more yards/game, more points/game, less TO's/game, and has increased the TOP under GRads. There is no argument, Grads is by far running this offense better than Simms. He has many areas to work on but much less than Simms does. The deep balls will come, bet that.

Just think what would've happened is Simms was thronw into the fire by the 4th game his rookie year. Oh god I wouldn't even want to think about that. it would've been an atrocitiy.

We all have our opinions, that's why this is a beautiful place but reality is Grads is better for this offense. Anyone who's denies that isn't thinking clearly.

So a better TOP (with same results in points), an almost even ratio of batted passes, an ability to trip over his own feet, and having faith on wether the deep balls will come, when he could never really throw them in college to begin with, is not thinking clearly?  Or is it someone else who is not thinking clearly?


DanTurksGhost

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#112 : November 15, 2006, 04:15:15 PM

Chris Simms brought  us from a hole and left his spleen on the field to get this team ahead in that Panther game.

Well, Simms essentially spotted the Panthers 7 points right off the bat, throwing an INT and giving Carolina the ball at the Bucs 30 yard line. One play later the Panthers were in the end zone. He did have a nice long drive to bring the Bucs to to within 10 at 17-7,  but the Bucs defense forced a Delhomme fumble at the Carolina 15 yard line and Simms did nothing except hand the ball to Caddy twice for a TD.

On the go-ahead drive in the third quarter, Simms did run it in from two yards out on fourth down to make the score 21-20, but he didn't have to put together a drive out of their own end, the Bucs got the ball when the defense forced a fumble at midfield. His FG drive in the fourth to make it 24-23 Bucs was a good one, with one particularly nice 27-yard completion to Smith.

alldaway

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#113 : November 15, 2006, 04:17:01 PM

however I have never seen Bruce have the ability to get us out of a hole yet....

The games may be ugly to watch this year. But one thing I can say confidently is that I watch all of them.

So do I no matter how bad they are...we will see as this season progresses how many of those people that have been saying "well I have always been a fan" show up.

You must not have watched the Bucs only two wins this year nor the New Orleans game.  Believe whatever you want.

keeponbucn

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#114 : November 15, 2006, 04:20:32 PM

you're missing the point. You can expect an offense being run by a rookie to struggle for bulks of time, you have to expect that.
I would hope a rookie that's played all of 6 games wouldn't move the offense better than a 4 year QB in the same system......wait, yes he is.

The offense has more yards/game, more points/game, less TO's/game, and has increased the TOP under GRads. There is no argument, Grads is by far running this offense better than Simms. He has many areas to work on but much less than Simms does. The deep balls will come, bet that.

Just think what would've happened is Simms was thronw into the fire by the 4th game his rookie year. Oh god I wouldn't even want to think about that. it would've been an atrocitiy.

We all have our opinions, that's why this is a beautiful place but reality is Grads is better for this offense. Anyone who's denies that isn't thinking clearly.

So a better TOP (with same results in points), an almost even ratio of batted passes, an ability to trip over his own feet, and having faith on wether the deep balls will come, when he could never really throw them in college to begin with, is not thinking clearly?  Or is it someone else who is not thinking clearly?
Quote


It's not an even number of batted passes Boid and you know it. What's worse your rookie year, tripping over your own feet or fumbling the snap? Remember that? Bringing up the tripping is ridiculous Boid and you know it. Wow, he tripped 1 time on Monday night, big time red flag right? He has missed on SOME deep passes and hit others. It's not like he's missing every deep pass and given time I'd take someone working on the deep pass over a QB having brain farts and throwing GAME-CHANGING int's wouldn't you?

It's obvious, clear as day who the better QB FOR THIS SYSTEM is.

alldaway

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#115 : November 15, 2006, 04:30:16 PM

The offense is ranked dead last becuase of one reason and one reason only.  Carnell's production has taken a nose dive.  The Bucs were a top fifteen rushing team last year in terms of yards and attempts.  If Gruden is not interested in using a top five pick offensive player in his offense then he should trade him.

BucsAddict

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#116 : November 15, 2006, 04:27:17 PM

Alligator arms...watch the games again on Tivo...yes there were some passes that were missed. However Chris did hit the majority of them in stride onkly to watch them hit the ground. The WR were not sharp and really still arnt

And Gradkowski was victimized multiple times in the game vs NYG by big time drops, and what should have been a solid comeback victory against the Saints was blown by special teams allowing Reggie Bush to run back a punt for a TD. Simms may have a prettier deep ball, but he was also intercepted at an alarming rate. You can't simply pick and choose parts of his game and say because of that one aspect he would have beaten this team or that team.

Therefore, there really isn't much basis to say uncategorically that had Simms played on MNF the Bucs would have won.
His INTs were not usually from errant deep passes.

Bounces of of feet, blocked passes at the LOS, slinging a twenty yarder into Chris McCalisters arm, a quick out to Clayton.

His deep balls were prettier, and they are actually more effective, and that is the entire basis of this argument.

The only thing GRads has over Simms, IMO, is an ability to run for 5 yards.

What happens if GRuden gets fired? Do the Bucs run the WeCoOf again? Not likely. And in that instance, I would rather see Simms in a shotgun.


and a qucker drop, release, decision-making, etc.

I'm not sure how anyone can sit here and say differently. Every concern about Grads is fixable, Simms problems aren't and huge red flags.

I couldn't believe the difference in pace to this offense once Grads was running it. Totally different speed, not so deliberate.

That quicker release is good for getting a pass batted every 23 attempts. Simms was getting his batted 1 every 16. Not that different.

Plus Grads trips over his own QUICK feet about once or twice every game.

The offense had not scored a TD in FOREVER, so the deliberation, the release, the decision making is not only hard to trust, but not feasible. Face it, Grads is not making this team go any better. Now that is an illusion.

oh comeon now, we're 32nd in offense but making a serious push for 31st!

==================================================
Gruden: Simms is gonna be a helluva quaterback- unless I screw it up.

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#117 : November 15, 2006, 04:33:04 PM

The offense is ranked dead last becuase of one reason and one reason only. Carnell's production has taken a nose dive. The Bucs were a top fifteen rushing team last year in terms of yards and attempts. If Gruden is not interested in using a top five pick offensive player in his offense then he should trade him.

ah so its all carnells fault then?

==================================================
Gruden: Simms is gonna be a helluva quaterback- unless I screw it up.

alldaway

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#118 : November 15, 2006, 04:39:38 PM

The offense is ranked dead last becuase of one reason and one reason only. Carnell's production has taken a nose dive. The Bucs were a top fifteen rushing team last year in terms of yards and attempts. If Gruden is not interested in using a top five pick offensive player in his offense then he should trade him.

ah so its all carnells fault then?

I am blaming for Gruden not giving Carnell enough oppurtunities with the ball.  And if he makes a mistake that should not mean that Gruden gives up on him.  He is a big weapon on offense and you have to give him a second chance.  How come Galloway receives another chance if he screws up?  We have seen good runs by Carnell in the third quarter this year.  If Gruden thinks Carnell is like Charlie Garner who can rip off a few runs with few carries in the first or second quarter he needs to reconsider if he wants Carnell for this offense.  Maybe a Westbrook type would suit him better if he wants to become pass happy with a few runs sprinkled in like Andy Reid likes to do.

Carnell is a bruising back with good stamina and is at his best pounding defenses with 20+ carries.  He is not a Westbrook /Garner homerun threat Gruden is trying to use him as.  And the offensive line is not designed for the quick hitter like Atlanta's smaller, atheltic o-line either. 




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#119 : November 15, 2006, 04:40:47 PM

Alligator arms...watch the games again on Tivo...yes there were some passes that were missed. However Chris did hit the majority of them in stride onkly to watch them hit the ground. The WR were not sharp and really still arnt

And Gradkowski was victimized multiple times in the game vs NYG by big time drops, and what should have been a solid comeback victory against the Saints was blown by special teams allowing Reggie Bush to run back a punt for a TD. Simms may have a prettier deep ball, but he was also intercepted at an alarming rate. You can't simply pick and choose parts of his game and say because of that one aspect he would have beaten this team or that team.

Therefore, there really isn't much basis to say uncategorically that had Simms played on MNF the Bucs would have won.
His INTs were not usually from errant deep passes.

Bounces of of feet, blocked passes at the LOS, slinging a twenty yarder into Chris McCalisters arm, a quick out to Clayton.

His deep balls were prettier, and they are actually more effective, and that is the entire basis of this argument.

The only thing GRads has over Simms, IMO, is an ability to run for 5 yards.

What happens if GRuden gets fired? Do the Bucs run the WeCoOf again? Not likely. And in that instance, I would rather see Simms in a shotgun.


and a qucker drop, release, decision-making, etc.

I'm not sure how anyone can sit here and say differently. Every concern about Grads is fixable, Simms problems aren't and huge red flags.

I couldn't believe the difference in pace to this offense once Grads was running it. Totally different speed, not so deliberate.

That quicker release is good for getting a pass batted every 23 attempts. Simms was getting his batted 1 every 16. Not that different.

Plus Grads trips over his own QUICK feet about once or twice every game.

The offense had not scored a TD in FOREVER, so the deliberation, the release, the decision making is not only hard to trust, but not feasible. Face it, Grads is not making this team go any better. Now that is an illusion.


you're missing the point. You can expect an offense being run by a rookie to struggle for bulks of time, you have to expect that.
I would hope a rookie that's played all of 6 games wouldn't move the offense better than a 4 year QB in the same system......wait, yes he is.

The offense has more yards/game, more points/game, less TO's/game, and has increased the TOP under GRads. There is no argument, Grads is by far running this offense better than Simms. He has many areas to work on but much less than Simms does. The deep balls will come, bet that.

Just think what would've happened is Simms was thronw into the fire by the 4th game his rookie year. Oh god I wouldn't even want to think about that. it would've been an atrocitiy.

We all have our opinions, that's why this is a beautiful place but reality is Grads is better for this offense. Anyone who's denies that isn't thinking clearly.

You can check my stats here I am just caluclating on the fly

Simms went
58-106 (35%)
585 yards (195 yards per game)
4 Sacks (1.3 sacks per game)
7 Interceptions (2.3 INT's per game)
1 Touchdown (.33 TD's per game)
Longest pass was 55 yards

Gradkowski is
115-218 (34%)
1028 yards (146 yards per game)
16 sacks (2 sacks per game)
3 Interceptions (.37 int per game)
7 Touchdowns (.875 touchdowns per game)
Longest pass was 52 yards

Looking at my unoffical stats I see Simms is a better Statistical QB in 4/6 catagories
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