No more Simms: Do you want to be let down again?

What facinates me about the whole thing is that Simms leads us to a division title (one we weren't suppose to contend for), was an eyelash away from winning a playoff game and then this year he has 2 bad starts against a great Ravens defense and a healthy atlanta defense and struggles along with everyone else on the team. You have that and people complain and in the meantime you have a rookie QB play one game against NO and all of a sudden he is the future.

Its immature fanism at its finest....

I'm not clamoring for Simms to be back and I'm not saying Grads is the future. I distinctfully remember telling some here on this board to wait a few weeks and see how he adjusts his game while everyone was annointing him the next tom brady because he is a 6 th round pick, ugh, goofy....

Everyone told us how great Simms was in the offseason, how he was gonna break-out...

[DanTurksGhost]

That is just out right wrong, you are wrong in this assesment.

I'm afraid not. Simms struggled with the complexities of the offense and still, going into his fourth season, had a difficult time processing and relating the play calls to his teammates. I don't care how far he could throw the ball or how pretty a pass he may have, there were members of this coaching staff who suggested that the Bucs might start Gradkowski on day one. That suggestion was overruled by Gruden.

Look, I know the Simms fans don't like to hear it, but that's simply the way it was.

[keeponbucn]

What facinates me about the whole thing is that Simms leads us to a division title (one we weren't suppose to contend for), was an eyelash away from winning a playoff game and then this year he has 2 bad starts against a great Ravens defense and a healthy atlanta defense and struggles along with everyone else on the team.

But it was more than that. It went back to the offseason and training camp and his continuing struggle to learn, understand, process, relate and manage the offense. Add on the fact that you had members of staff other than Jon Gruden lobbying for the raw 6th round pick to start on opening day, and it paints a much clearer picture of what has been going on with the position.

That's the biggest load of crap I have ever heard. Three games we lost down the stretch last season were all against teams who made it a point to get in there and look for passes to knock down. You'd think Jon would have learned from that, and put on his little mad scientist routine, locked himself in his office like everyone says and came up with a new plan. Instead he tried to pound a square peg into a round whole to start off the season. Now he changes his phillosophy. He's going down field more with his limp wristed QB instead of when he had the one with the cannon arm.

Abuccs, you're right about Gruden needing to correct the batted balls but wrong to the point of now he's going deep with Grads and not Simms. It's just wrong. Gruden said it when Simms was in there that he's missing looks. We're trying to go deep and he's missing the looks. You don't just throw deep to throw deep because your QB has a great arm. Grads isn't missing the looks he's missing the throws.

[ABuccs Fan]

Wouldn't you agree Gruden changed his entire offense last year to accomodate? He also changed the offense in the second half of the ATL game to help Simms out. They went through the entire off-season running 3-steps and I'm sure Gruden felt comfortable with Simms going in. It didn't work out, it's done. THere is a certain type of QB that is required to run this offense and I think one of the most important trait is a quick release. Simms isn't even close to having a quick release and it gives the defense time to react.

I understand the offense hasn't been stellar to say the least but it's a different looking offense with Grads in there. Grads has much less to improve upon than Simms does even now, after 4 years. Enough is enough.

Yes he changed, but 3 games in particular I can think of that he went back and the results were the same. Chicago, New England and the Skins playoff game.

A certain type of QB? He's supposed to be an offensive genius...genius. Devise a scheme that plays to your player's strenghts. What If Grads blew out a knew in his first game and we have no "Gruden prototype QB's" left to, play? Do we just give up and forfiet? Sorry guys, we don't have a QB who fits Jon's scheme, we'll have to stay home this week. This theory is so off the charts crazy I can't believe some of you are buying this.

[DanTurksGhost]

Now he changes his phillosophy. He's going down field more with his limp wristed QB instead of when he had the one with the cannon arm.

Gruden's offensive scheme hasn't changed.

[ABuccs Fan]

What facinates me about the whole thing is that Simms leads us to a division title (one we weren't suppose to contend for), was an eyelash away from winning a playoff game and then this year he has 2 bad starts against a great Ravens defense and a healthy atlanta defense and struggles along with everyone else on the team.

But it was more than that. It went back to the offseason and training camp and his continuing struggle to learn, understand, process, relate and manage the offense. Add on the fact that you had members of staff other than Jon Gruden lobbying for the raw 6th round pick to start on opening day, and it paints a much clearer picture of what has been going on with the position.

That's the biggest load of crap I have ever heard. Three games we lost down the stretch last season were all against teams who made it a point to get in there and look for passes to knock down. You'd think Jon would have learned from that, and put on his little mad scientist routine, locked himself in his office like everyone says and came up with a new plan. Instead he tried to pound a square peg into a round whole to start off the season. Now he changes his phillosophy. He's going down field more with his limp wristed QB instead of when he had the one with the cannon arm.

Abuccs, you're right about Gruden needing to correct the batted balls but wrong to the point of now he's going deep with Grads and not Simms. It's just wrong. Gruden said it when Simms was in there that he's missing looks. We're trying to go deep and he's missing the looks. You don't just throw deep to throw deep because your QB has a great arm. Grads isn't missing the looks he's missing the throws.

How am I wrong??? I brought this up the other day, and our resident Stats guy Dalbuc confirmed that we are going deep at twice the rate we did with Simms.

[DanTurksGhost]

This theory is so off the charts crazy I can't believe some of you are buying this.

Never coached a day in your life, I see.

[ABuccs Fan]

This theory is so off the charts crazy I can't believe some of you are buying this.

Never coached a day in your life, I see.

Neither have you!!!

[DanTurksGhost]

How am I wrong??? I brought this up the other day, and our resident Stats guy Dalbuc confirmed that we are going deep at twice the rate we did with Simms.

If you can't understand this, a very fundamental aspect of how NFL offenses operate, then I don't know how much you expect to learn here.

[keeponbucn]

What facinates me about the whole thing is that Simms leads us to a division title (one we weren't suppose to contend for), was an eyelash away from winning a playoff game and then this year he has 2 bad starts against a great Ravens defense and a healthy atlanta defense and struggles along with everyone else on the team.

But it was more than that. It went back to the offseason and training camp and his continuing struggle to learn, understand, process, relate and manage the offense. Add on the fact that you had members of staff other than Jon Gruden lobbying for the raw 6th round pick to start on opening day, and it paints a much clearer picture of what has been going on with the position.

That's the biggest load of crap I have ever heard. Three games we lost down the stretch last season were all against teams who made it a point to get in there and look for passes to knock down. You'd think Jon would have learned from that, and put on his little mad scientist routine, locked himself in his office like everyone says and came up with a new plan. Instead he tried to pound a square peg into a round whole to start off the season. Now he changes his phillosophy. He's going down field more with his limp wristed QB instead of when he had the one with the cannon arm.

Abuccs, you're right about Gruden needing to correct the batted balls but wrong to the point of now he's going deep with Grads and not Simms. It's just wrong. Gruden said it when Simms was in there that he's missing looks. We're trying to go deep and he's missing the looks. You don't just throw deep to throw deep because your QB has a great arm. Grads isn't missing the looks he's missing the throws.

How am I wrong??? I brought this up the other day, and our resident Stats guy Dalbuc confirmed that we are going deep at twice the rate we did with Simms.

what part of my reply did you not read? I don't care what Dal says, Gruden said that Simms is missing the looks deep and going underneath. Of course if you run the numbers Grads is throwing deep more because he isn't missing the looks so those numbers are accurate. It doesn't account for how many deep plays Gruden called and Simms didn't read it properly.

[Boid Fink]

What facinates me about the whole thing is that Simms leads us to a division title (one we weren't suppose to contend for), was an eyelash away from winning a playoff game and then this year he has 2 bad starts against a great Ravens defense and a healthy atlanta defense and struggles along with everyone else on the team.

But it was more than that. It went back to the offseason and training camp and his continuing struggle to learn, understand, process, relate and manage the offense. Add on the fact that you had members of staff other than Jon Gruden lobbying for the raw 6th round pick to start on opening day, and it paints a much clearer picture of what has been going on with the position.

That is just out right wrong, you are wrong in this assesment. Ok, from PR to chris mortensen, everyone who was asked who looked the most impressive this offseason, they responded Chris Simms.........That is just not true, he looked great this offseason per PR and ESPN and Sportingnews and SportsIllustrated, etc etc etc....What did grads do in the preseason against 4 th string defenses, whoa, whooptie doo, he threw a few TD's, ran a little bit, showed some grit, its the NFL....

Exactly.

But Gruden didn't have that "gleam" in his eye when he talked about Simms...you know, the way he talks about GRads?

Really.  Go back and watch for the glint, the twinkle....bah.

Simms was heralded as a guy who was ready.

He started out rough, no doubt.  But in time, I think he would have righted his numbers.  HIs ability as a QB are not in doubt, IMO.  The batted passes are not that disturbing anymore, considering the ratios are about even.  It might the use of a three step drop, and the lack of explosion from the O-line to drive people backward.

The picks were distressing, but versus the Ravens, what are you going to say?  Their defense is tough, espescially the secondary.  He had one in ATL that bounced off a guys foot and popped up into the dbacks arms.  HE had one that was tipped at the LOS and brought back by Haloti Ngata. HE had one to start the Carolina game out, and then leveled out and almost brought the Bucs back (I blame the defense for that loss).  HE would have righted the ship.

Simms knows the plays, but the O-line was REALLY struggling when he was in (the loss of Davin, the use of MAhan, and the dissapearance of TErry are factors).  Simms was playing when the team was just starting to feel the difficulties they were  about to endure.  And GRads is only a few dropped picks away from actually having about 6 or 7 picks himself.

Simms should be back.  I have that feeling the staff understands this as well.

[ABuccs Fan]

Now he changes his phillosophy. He's going down field more with his limp wristed QB instead of when he had the one with the cannon arm.

Gruden's offensive scheme hasn't changed.

I said philosophy not scheme...there's that pesky reading comprehension thing again.

A damn PVC pipe dummy?

When you think about it, that really is funny.

[DanTurksGhost]

Neither have you!!!

Oh but I most certainly have.

[DanTurksGhost]

I said philosophy not scheme...there's that pesky reading comprehension thing again.

You're implying that Gruden is offering Gradkowski the chance to throw the ball deep more often than Simms. That's just simply not the case.