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Boid Fink

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#30 : November 09, 2007, 12:29:36 AM

I am not a christian, but I feel bad quite a bit.  My conscience nags me constantly.

But I do recognize there is a higher power for certain.

I am just not willing to call him a specific name, with a specific agenda, other than neutral.  Too much personification involved, IMO.

Something exists.  I look at my beautiful daughter, and I am reminded of it ALL THE TIME.  Am I willing to accept what other mortals tell me to be the truth about such matter?  From men who do not practice what they are preaching?  Nope.

I am trying to be a good man.  Lord knows (lol), I am trying.  Funny I say "Lord" knows. 

BUt do I believe in life outside of our universe?  Yes.  Too much space (infinity), soo many possibilities.  Could we have developed from MOnkeys?  Absolutely.

Caveman (funny) developed inot Homo Sapien.  So the possibility exists in the transmogrification of man and his "natural" shape.

What I call a "monkey", is loosely worded.  I mean, we have monkeys still running around, why did they not evolve?

But I do believe that we people developed from another form.

I wonder who the REAL first hominid was?


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#31 : November 09, 2007, 12:38:12 AM

I think his name was Adum... ;D

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Boid Fink

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#32 : November 09, 2007, 12:53:08 AM

I think his name was Adum... ;D
Yeah, that was what it was rumored to have been.

Did he not come from Africa?

I dunno.

And neither does anyone for absolute certain.


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#33 : November 09, 2007, 12:55:32 AM

I think it that's why it's called faith.

But, what do I know about that?

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#34 : November 09, 2007, 01:04:09 AM

I think it that's why it's called faith.

But, what do I know about that?
I have BELIEF in a bigger power.  Not faith.

But do I have faith in men who are not likely to be trusted who wrote a book?  I mean, which version of the Bible are we reading?

The one in which a man rewrote so as to be able to procure a divorce?  The Stephen King version?

I would just as soon look at my daughter and feel a bigger power, to have faith in GOD, than to trust the local priest who thinks my daughter is illegit because she was born out of wedlock (like she had a choice), from the same priest who disallows females from teaching SUnday School because women should not be trusted to do such things (it happened in my town...he ran for mayor and lost...whew!), from a priest who might be a lecherous toucher of children?  Not all priests are like that, but I am fine with my belief that I am a decent human being, and that something better exists.

To think someone would tell me that I am hellbound because I have not had the "benefit" of a baptism is completely laughable to me.  I do not think it is bad...religion in general.  I tend to think ALL religion is an asset to humanity, because it stymies a lot of "natural urges" to do harm, before good.  Without some form of moral guidance (religion), I think people would be animals.

Faith is fine though.  Faith in Adam is a bit absurd to me.  But the PHILOSOPHY of Adam and EVE is nice.  Why not?  It teaches lessons, the bible.

BUt it also contradicts, and was written by people I do not know, nor trust of their sources (their minds).



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#35 : November 09, 2007, 01:08:05 AM

I have BELIEF in a bigger power.  Not faith.

But do I have faith in men who are not likely to be trusted who wrote a book?  I mean, which version of the Bible are we reading?

The one in which a man rewrote so as to be able to procure a divorce?  The Stephen King version?

I would just as soon look at my daughter and feel a bigger power, to have faith in GOD, than to trust the local priest who thinks my daughter is illegit because she was born out of wedlock (like she had a choice), from the same priest who disallows females from teaching SUnday School because women should not be trusted to do such things (it happened in my town...he ran for mayor and lost...whew!), from a priest who might be a lecherous toucher of children?  Not all priests are like that, but I am fine with my belief that I am a decent human being, and that something better exists.

To think someone would tell me that I am hellbound because I have not had the "benefit" of a baptism is completely laughable to me.  I do not think it is bad...religion in general.  I tend to think ALL religion is an asset to humanity, because it stymies a lot of "natural urges" to do harm, before good.  Without some form of moral guidance (religion), I think people would be animals.

Faith is fine though.  Faith in Adam is a bit absurd to me.  But the PHILOSOPHY of Adam and EVE is nice.  Why not?  It teaches lessons, the bible.

BUt it also contradicts, and was written by people I do not know, nor trust of their sources (their minds).

Well communicated, my thoughts to a T.

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#36 : November 09, 2007, 02:02:15 AM



I mean we've got an example of what stamping out religion did for a country right? Once the religion thing is dealt with you can really build a workers utopia. You want to ask the Inca's if they liked what they thought of the spanairds? I want to ask the folks in the former USSR if it was cool when man wiped out religion yet still found a way to kill 20 million people while no one said a word - Or ask those German Jews if it was ok when a guy that had no formal religion tried to wipe them off the face of the earth - and again no one minded because, you know, the trains ran on time...

and then we'll pretend to work and they'll pretend to pay...

and we'll all be happy then....


They didn't really wipe out religion, Buckeye. They simply replaced one with another. The new religion was called Communism. They were still as self-righteous and certain as any Christian. I should think that self-righteous certainty is a prerequisite for killing 20 million people.

As for the man who tried to wipe out the German Jews, Adolph Hitler was a baptized and practicing Catholic. He pronounced his devotion to Jesus and God on many occasions, even in his Mein Kampf manifesto.

I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so.

- Adolf Hitler, to General Gerhard Engel, 1941

Today Christians ... stand at the head of [this country]... I pledge that I never will tie myself to parties who want to destroy Christianity .. We want to fill our culture again with the Christian spirit ... We want to burn out all the recent immoral developments in literature, in the theater, and in the press - in short, we want to burn out the poison of immorality which has entered into our whole life and culture as a result of liberal excess during the past ... (few) years.

- Adolf Hitler, quoted in: The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, 1922-1939, Vol. 1 (London, Oxford University Press, 1942), pg. 871-872


Sounds very Falwellian or Robertsonian to me.


I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth. --Umberto Eco

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#37 : November 09, 2007, 02:37:11 AM

Big_Mac it is good to see you again.

Yes, I have heard this debate before - christians kill people but atheists liberate them. Unfortunately history just proves that man will use any means to dominate other men in order to extract wealth, praise, more power - it's Yurtle the Turtle. the more rganized the means the more effective the control. Man abuses what he touches because man is corrupt.

What is communism except humansim run amok? It is a dogma in place of religion - but it was one that stood on wiping out ALL religion. It elevated athesim to faith status and replaced God with the state. Men were free of moral absolutes - but they stil enslaved themselves to the state. Communism held firm to atheism as a justification for it's actions. Man was not created - man was. If man was not created then what is done to him is of no consequence except as it affect the state. If it pleased the state to repress/opress the opposition, who was to argue? After all the collective - which is to say the state - made the laws. If the state chose to plant something other than what would grow - and this caused famine - then people died. So be it, they would have died anyway.

And Hitler being a Catholic...really? I'll have to dust off my Corrie ten Boom quote: "Just because a mouse is in a cookie jar - it doesn't make him a cookie". "You shall know them by there fruits..." also springs to mind. Hitler made his own absolutes - when the bible said not to kill - he simply rationalized that Jews were not men! Simple - he made his own rules. I think he used religion - or what people thought about religion - in order to control the masses. His first act was not introduce christian morals - his intial act was to begin down a road to introduce hindu though and symbolism, occult practices and some hocus pocus stuff dreamt up by Goebles - in order to train the Germans away from the christian ideas of right and wrong in order to make the hellish decisions to seem more pallatable in light of the new morality they were attempting to develop...all this to exert control as the absolute authority.

I must say I am surprised that you would seek to link Hitler to Christianity/Catholicism?

Atheism has killed more people than all religions combined. When man seeks to eliminate God, he places himself in that role. That means man assumes absolute power - and we know what absolute power does to men...

This is an old argument - God wouldn't be in killing others so we need to kill God. Unfortunately man does believe in killing his neighbor in order to get what he wants - others determine not to be killed so they kill first. Either way man still kills - with or without God.

The common denominator in evil is not God.

The common denominator in evil is man.

He refuses to accept the existance of God. If by chance man does acknowledge Gods existence - he puts him in a box and limits what part of his will he will surrender to this God.

My God has communicated what He wants from me quite nicely. My life's work is spent coming to terms with either doing what he wants or coming to grips with why I don't want to do it.

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keeponbucn

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#38 : November 09, 2007, 08:25:29 AM

He refuses to accept the existance of God. If by chance man does acknowledge Gods existence - he puts him in a box and limits what part of his will he will surrender to this God.

My God has communicated what He wants from me quite nicely. My life's work is spent coming to terms with either doing what he wants or coming to grips with why I don't want to do it.


Uggh, typical response from a thumper.

Boid Fink

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#39 : November 09, 2007, 10:13:29 AM

There have been many examples in history of countries placing their wars in the name of some "higher" authority.

I find it curious that countries do this in the name of something that is supposed to be pure.  Same could be said about dogma, or political party affiliation.  The only thing better about doing it in the name of a party system is that it does not taint the good name of a higher power.

I like the mouse in a cookie jar statement, but truth is truth.  REligion has received more than its fair share of black eyes over the course of history.  I form my own opinions about things such as this.

You go talk to a practioner of BUddhism, and he is most likely going to tell you he is content with the way things are.  You talk to a member of the Nation of Islam, and he is probably a better man as a result of it.  Talk to a Christian, or a Jew, and the same could be said.  Religion is a morale compass.  It is the dogmatics of the whole thing that makes me feel funny about the deal.

I'd just prefer to think I am a good soul, doing things because they are supposed to be done that way.  And in the end, I would like to be able to sit down and have a chat with whatever it was that makes our lives so enigmatic...I am sure whatever it is, whatever name it flies by, it will understand, pat me on the back and say, "Carry on."


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#40 : November 09, 2007, 11:13:25 AM

So I ask - isn't the real problem men? Aren't we just angry that someone forces us to be accountable for our actions?

Who forces us to be accountable for our actions? You're not talking about God, are you?



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Hitler made his own absolutes - when the bible said not to kill - he simply rationalized that Jews were not men!

The bible said not to kill yet is littered with death being the consequences for a multitude of actions. No wonder Adolph was confused and made his own interpretations ....



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#41 : November 09, 2007, 11:55:50 AM

It's really great that that accidental spark popped that single cell and forced it to divide - lucky for us that cell was here...right? Lucky that once it divided it remembered how to do it, often enough to invent millions of copies and sub copies and sub, sub copies...and that one cell turned into to so many different species. Man that thing was better than Oswalds magic bullet. Even though nothing can be found to show that this ever really happened...

Hmm... they can't find that single cell from billions of years ago? Now that is su**CENSORED**ious.


EDIT: I've just learned that they are also unable to locate the apple that allegedly fell on Isaac Newton's head. My belief in the theory of gravity is now also starting to crumble...

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#42 : November 09, 2007, 12:14:15 PM

Proverbs 1:7 The fear of the LORD [is] the beginning of knowledge: [but] fools despise wisdom and instruction.

God created man & monkey.  To different creations.  Stop trying to figure out things beyond our ability and accept that the creator of the universe is in control. 



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#43 : November 09, 2007, 12:18:28 PM

Stop trying to figure out things beyond our ability and accept that the creator of the universe is in control. 

You mean stop being human and just accept your theories as being unquestionable? Thanks, but I'll pass.

John Galt?

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#44 : November 09, 2007, 03:32:17 PM

What about the evidence?

The absolute, incontrivertible evidense that monkeys have evolved, exists.

Here it is in it's poo flinging glory

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