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Pick6

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: November 15, 2006, 04:47:14 PM

i remain firmly in gruden's corner, and i believe in the team we're putting together, so i'm not calling for gruden's head....but it's obviously on the minds of fans & analysts at this point, and it got me thinking about the fallout...

i think we'd probably be saying goodbye to kiffin (new HC probably will want to implement his own system, and the timing lends itself to a change given the age of our stars), but the front office shakeup is also a question in my mind....since part of the GM's job is to hire and fire the coach, would allen do it?

i don't buy the "puppet" rhetoric that gets kicked around, but i do see them very much as a package deal....obviously allen stayed behind in oakland (GM job was kinda taken here in tampa), but would he be the guy to pull the trigger and usher in a new coach, or would ownership send the 2 of them packing together?

interesting question, because firing gruden could very well mean finding all of the below:
-new HC
-new GM
-OC
-new DC

a total organizational shakeup, and probably a ton of player departures to boot.  add to that the fact that you've got a group of coaches & personnel guys together who haven't had a chance to scout FAs or draft picks (see allen's first offseason here to see how well that goes) relative to the coaching staff's preferences while trying to figure out how to spend 4 top 70 picks and $30m, and i can see some brutal mismanagement on the horizon

IMO, letting gruden go this year would have a domino effect that would set everything back about 4 years.

DanTurksGhost

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#1 : November 15, 2006, 04:49:41 PM

There's a plan in place. The owners already know about it, understand it, and have blessed it. If you fire Gruden/Allen now, that means aborting the plan and starting over. I don't think they're interested in doing that. As far as I can see, regardless of what the final record is this season, Gruden and Allen will be here for 2007 since 2007 is the key year in their plan.

2008 and beyond will be decided after that.

watson

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#2 : November 15, 2006, 04:57:06 PM

There's a plan in place. The owners already know about it, understand it, and have blessed it. If you fire Gruden/Allen now, that means aborting the plan and starting over. I don't think they're interested in doing that. As far as I can see, regardless of what the final record is this season, Gruden and Allen will be here for 2007 since 2007 is the key year in their plan.

2008 and beyond will be decided after that.
Agree.  Young players selected to support a certain scheme....stick with it.

Truths:
1.  Never have an argument with an idiot.  They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with their experience.
2.  For some it would be better if they remained silent and be thought a fool than to speak and erase all doubt.

chcwarriorpoet

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#3 : November 15, 2006, 05:09:17 PM

  Great assessment BucINT20. I wonder what team fans are looking at when they say that JG and BA don't have a plan. The offense from 02 was a veteran group that was brought in through free agency and trades. That unit was good enough for a championship. Then came time for an offense of unit to be built. They had to work with Sims, Walker, and Wade. They drafted:

QB: Gradkowski
RB: Williams
TE: Smith
WR: Clayton, Stovall
OT: Trueblood, Colmer
OG: Buenning, Joseph, Terry
C: Mahan

That's not including trading for Galloway, signing Ike, and late round picks that didn't make it. They brought in a young core in the past few years that needs time to grow and improve. This offseason we should round out a vet or two for the offense and start drafting a young core on defense. There is a plan, we have to be patient and give our young guys time. Every young team goes through growing pains. Especially with young QB's.

alldaway

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#4 : November 15, 2006, 06:29:11 PM

The Bucs FO has a plan.  Gruden is not executing.  Is it fair to the Bucs front office or other coaches? No.

Do I mind if the Bucs start over again? No to be honest.  With the cap space and draft picks  a new coach and new front office may be able to turn this thing around sooner than people think.  Draft picks and cap space to work with are appealing to any head coach prospect retread or a fresh one.  The new training faculity is the icing on the cake.  This all could be Grudens but he has to show progress this year and win at least five games.   Some people feel Gruden can turn it around next year but I do not see Gruden building any momentum for next year (especially with the young players on offense) so far.  Teams that have losing season need to finish the season on a positive note.  The Bucs started off the second half of their season and quarter three with a loss.  That may be foreshadowing what is to come.  I hope I am wrong.




DanTurksGhost

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#5 : November 15, 2006, 06:46:27 PM

Everyone has a plan. The fact that your plan doesn't work is the problem.

Well, 2007 will tell us whether the plan works or not.

DanTurksGhost

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#6 : November 15, 2006, 06:54:52 PM

Clearly the plan wasn't to be 3-13 this year after 11-5 so apparently the plan is broken now.

And having to go through three different QB's to get to this point wasn't part of the plan, either. The fact is, this team has a plan and the most important year in that plan has been and will be 2007. Short-sighted fans may not understand that, but the owners with the long view do.

DanTurksGhost

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#7 : November 15, 2006, 07:06:11 PM

LOL, the probem was the planned QB for 2006 was not gonna get us past 3-13 either. I mean I know that 0-3 start had you thinking Super bowl - especially since you rip Simms all the time and now want to claim his loss was a problem.

Of course his loss was a problem, regardless of how he performed when he was in there. Someone who knows something about the league should be able to clearly see and understand that. The fact is, the team was ready to go with one guy and he got injured. So then the #2 option was the player they had to work with. Then they spent the huge bulk of their time getting #2 guy ready for this season, and despite the staff's best efforts, he just didn't get it. So now they're at, essentially, the third option. Regardless of how enamored the Bucs are with Gradkowski, starting a rookie is not conducive with winning today. It will help for winning next season, but for this year it's suffering and growing pains.

Because of the bad situation this team was in regarding contracts, personnel and draft picks, the bullet has to be bitten at some point. 2007 has always been the target year to clear themselves of many of those issues, and it will be. What they DO with the opportunity of 2007 will be the deciding factor as to whether they remain in control of this team. The owners are behind them in this.

Just because the organization has a plan in place that you don't agree with doesn't mean it can't be a successful plan.

alldaway

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#8 : November 15, 2006, 07:10:10 PM

I am not worried about the Bucs FO executing the long term. I mean lets be real the plan for most teams with cap space is obvious as well as top draft picks (add playeres to the team)  My worry is the coaching not the lack of talent some believe.   Right now I am not seeing much but the defense is improving and they are slowly climbing out of the cellar that is something you have to credite Monte, Barry and the new coaches for.  Hopefully the offense can do the same but Gruden has to use the tools provided by the front office.  If Carnell is not going to be used they might as well trade him off.


gone

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#9 : November 15, 2006, 08:16:03 PM

If it isn't gruden, It'll be muir.  SOmeone's head will roll this year.  IT won't be Monte, or the new coaches, those issues are clearly understandable.

THe O-side is more confusing.  The problem isn't in the personnell (although the lack of experience and picks hurts).  It's in player performance, and that means it's in how those players have been coached.  The HC doesn't coach positions.  It's clear he has the worng prople in and that's his bad.  If he really doesn't want a change, then hell go and deservedly so.  More likely, there'll be changes in the staff, and some new but experienced coaches brought in for positions.

Of course, if Muir is here next year I'd bet my xoul on the whol pictures of mal in a pink thong angle...



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#10 : November 16, 2006, 10:20:36 AM

There's a plan in place. The owners already know about it, understand it, and have blessed it.

Just wondering.... you type as if you have some inside knowledge. Is that so?

DanTurksGhost

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#11 : November 16, 2006, 10:25:21 AM

Just wondering.... you type as if you have some inside knowledge. Is that so?

I'll PM you.



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#12 : November 16, 2006, 10:26:49 AM

Just wondering.... you type as if you have some inside knowledge. Is that so?

I'll PM you.


Kool. I'lll be waiting.

keeponbucn

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#13 : November 16, 2006, 10:32:54 AM

Just wondering.... you type as if you have some inside knowledge. Is that so?

I'll PM you.


DarkTurdGhost!!!

If you don't mind my fellow Buc fan with inside knowledge, please?
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