Stats Simms v Grads

[caradoc]

Since we have nothing else to do till the next game...

Looking at their individual stats:
* the team stats are different, Simms was 6&4 Grads is 2&4, But I'm measuring stats here, and there's a caveat to Simms' record; Simms had --The #1 Defense.  Superior running game.  Signifigantly easier schedule. And Simms had the advantage of being in the system for longer ('04 wasn't rookie either).  So here are the stats:


Grads Rookie:
6 Starts 8 games played52.8%  7TD:3INT 70.7 rating
20+yds 8
40+yds 2

Simms '04 (second year):
2 starts, 5 Games played 57.5% 1TD:3INT 64.1 rating
20+ 6
40+1

Simms '05(third year)
10 Starts 11 played 61.0 % 10TD:7INT 81.4 rating
20+ 21
40+3

Simms 06 (fourth year)
3 starts 3 played 54.7% 1TD:7INT 46.3 rating
20+ 6
40+ 1

'05 notes on Simms
went over 90 rating 3 times:
2x vs NO
1x v washington

out of 10 starts had 3 multiple TD games:
Wash 3, ATL2, NO2
5 games no TD's
Also had 3 Multiple INT games in '05

Not counting ties, threw more INTs than TD's in 3 games out of 10 (5/12 counting '04), 7/15 counting '06
Not counting ties, threw more TD's than INT's in 2 games out of 10 (of 12 counting '04) of 15 counting '06
(the tie games are: 1 2TD:2INT game v ATL, and 4 0TD:0INT games) 

Simms Failed to complete a single TD pass in 5 games of 10. (6 of 12 counting '04)

Bruce has been "blanked" in the TD department in 33% of his games
Simms in his main year was "blanked" in 50% of his games (and 50% in '04 too)


Grads Averages just over one TD and .5 INT per game
Simms in his main year averaged 1 TD and .7 INT per game.  (in '04 he threw 1:3 in 2 starts, so overall he is less than 1 TD and higher on INT too)

In Simm's second and third year:
in 6 games Grads has 1030 yards
in 12 games Simms has 2259 yards
(that's pretty close to even -- in 12 games at this rate Grads would have 2060, or 200 yards less)
including thisyear:
in 16 games Simms totals 3087 -- Grads would be at 2790 or around there

Grads has thrown More INTs than TD's in one game so far compared to Simms' 5
(3 in '05 and 2 more in '04)

in '04 Simms fumbled 3 times, 6 in '05
Grads has 8 fumbles.  Advantage Simms

Stats above don't count the playoff game, (which would make him look worse)
Handy gamelog, see how Simms did vs different D's:

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/396084/gamelogs/2005

Grads' personalrookie stats (not team stats) compare pretty favorably with Simms in '05. Slightly lower rating compared to Simms '05, but higher compared to Simms '04 and signifigantly higher than Simms '06
lower percentage (by 4%,6%,1% ) than Simms in 04,05,06
Slightly/fairly more yards for Simms.
 
Overall, We looked better last year, but we were running and had a defense.  And comparing Simms' stats makes it clear he wasn't all that much (if at all) better than Grads overall, even without the rookie factor.  We just remember those long bombs more than the many 3/outs and INT's and incompletes...

[Boid Fink]

Yet with Grads, and all these stats that support your argument for him, the Bucs are still DEAD LAST in total offense, and go for long periods (Games, as a matter) without scoring any offensive TDs, or points.  Hmmm...

[caradoc]

Yet with Grads, and all these stats that support your argument for him, the Bucs are still DEAD LAST in total offense, and go for long periods (Games, as a matter) without scoring any offensive TDs, or points.  Hmmm...

The point, since you clearly didn't read it, is their individual accomplishments, stated quite clearly.  And dont pretend Caddy's slump and the missing D had nothing to do with the difference...he'd be 3:3 if not for the ST in NO too...

[caradoc]

To clarify, the point isn't that Grads is great.  The point is that Simms was never really that good.  There is no excuse for a guy in his 3rd year to be this close to a rookie --- and I left out this year in most stats, he'd look worse.  Everyone talks about how much better Simms was last year than Bruce this year, but statisticly he wasn't much better if at all.  While I am quite aware stats don't cover everything, they do cover a lot.  And when you compare the team around him last year, that covers a lot too.  Simms was just not all that some peeps make him out to be.  He was barely better than africkin rookie

In 2005 Simms went 5-1 against the division, 3 of thsoe wins in December. Had 3 come from behind 4th quaretr scoring drives that took leads in games (when Have he Bucs ever done that, ever?). Had 3 TD games. Added the quick strike dimension to the offense. Was accurate on all passes. Seemed to cut out all mistakes down the stretch and into training camp. Was mistake prone and a bad decision make in 3 games this year. Lots of batted passes

Gradkowski completes 50% of his passes. Has a weaker arm with so-so accuracy on deep passes and at times is less accurate than Simms on short-intermediate passes. Is 0-3 against the division. Is a smart QB who doesnt make many mistakes. Has speed to escape and add the mobility dimension to the offense.

Neitehr QB was helped this year by the running game or OL. But for some reason Simms took all the heat in the first 3 games but the runnign game and OL get all the heat since Gradkowski took over. IMO Simms is the better QB, and better for this offense. This isnt the ideal offense for SImms, bu still he is bette rthan Gradkowski in it

[ZenBuc]

I don't think anyone can argue with the fact that Simms had a much better performing team around him in '05 than Grads has now, or even Simms himself had his 1st 3 starts of '06. The one thing Simms can hang his hat on is that 1st WAS game. IIRC, that was the only game that he won without the defense playing well (though they did force some key tournovers despite allowing a lot of points) and no running game. Grads has yet to have one of those games. Coincendently he could have one against WAS this Sunday; the skins D has given up the most big plays this season of any team.

IMO, neither Simms nor Grads has had enough playing time for anyone to say if they'll be good or not. Simms has less than a season of starts under his belt and Grads has just 6 games.

Overall, We looked better last year, but we were running and had a defense. And comparing Simms' stats makes it clear he wasn't all that much (if at all) better than Grads overall, even without the rookie factor. We just remember those long bombs more than the many 3/outs and INT's and incompletes...

Do you think however Chris Simms ability to burn you deep had anything to do with the running game? Right now Bruce is not respected by for the deep pass. When Simms is in the game safeties have to play back, However when Grads plays you can stuff the box and stop the run....IMO Grads will never take that next step tll he can burn a defense deep...I dont know if he will ever be able to do that

[alldaway]

Do you think however Chris Simms ability to burn you deep had anything to do with the running game?

No.  Carnell  had the best start of any NFL RB last year with Griese playing average/below average.

[cvillebucfan]

For any one that cannot understand football.....Defenses the Bucs face have zero respect for the passing game, none at all. You stop Tampa bay from getting caddy the ball you win. Gradkowski has repeatidly missed open WR, shown an inablity to move the ball threw the air consistently. Caddy did find opps last year to run because Simms did prove he could not only throw it deep, but actually complete one.

As I said yesterday all the grad talk, its put up or shut up this week. At home, vs. the Redskins, worst pass defense in the NFL. We'll see. I hope he balls out, he def should, we'll see....

[XXXVII Champs]

 [banghead] Some people are wearing this Simms Grads thing out.   [banghead]Statisically speaking, they both suck this year.  [banghead] All of this Grads and Simms disecting makes as much sense as arguing who finished a race last and next to last, it just doesn't matter.  [banghead] There are problems all over the team that effect the play of others.  This aint tennis.  Football is a team sport, a sport where ALL players have to do thier jobs so the guy next to him can do his job effectively.  [banghead]

Do you think however Chris Simms ability to burn you deep had anything to do with the running game?

No. Carnell had the best start of any NFL RB last year with Griese playing average/below average.

Griese didnt miss WIDE OPEN recievers

[Pick6]

Had 3 come from behind 4th quaretr scoring drives that took leads in games (when Have he Bucs ever done that, ever?).

well, gradkowski did that 3 times in a row, @NO, v CIN, vPHI - the first 3 starts of his career.

[alldaway]

For any one that cannot understand football.....Defenses the Bucs face have zero respect for the passing game, none at all.

Teams did not have respect of the Bucs passing game last year  either with Simms or Griese.  Only thing has changed is that Carnell's attempts are way down and the Bucs defense is worse.

Let me point out to you that this team last year was a top fifteen rushing team in terms of yards and attempts.

Do you think however Chris Simms ability to burn you deep had anything to do with the running game?

No. Carnell had the best start of any NFL RB last year with Griese playing average/below average.

Griese didnt miss WIDE OPEN recievers

You are right.  He hit opposing defenders right on target.  Mr. Law I am sure sent him some flowers by now.   

After the PR by Reggie Bush @NO Grads fell on his face....He looked HORRIBLE vs Philladelphia (0 touchdowns)!!

[alldaway]

After the PR by Reggie Bush @NO Grads fell on his face....He looked HORRIBLE vs Philladelphia (0 touchdowns)!!

How dare Grakowski make a critical throw to Clayton (which btw I am suprised he caught) and then a critical run to put the Bucs in position for a field goal against Philly.  That rookie should be benched!