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#15 : November 16, 2006, 09:10:21 AM

For any one that cannot understand football.....Defenses the Bucs face have zero respect for the passing game, none at all.

Teams did not have respect of the Bucs passing game last year either with Simms or Griese. Only thing has changed is that Carnell's attempts are way down and the Bucs defense is worse.

Let me point out to you that this team last year was a top fifteen rushing team in terms of yards and attempts.


Do you think however Chris Simms ability to burn you deep had anything to do with the running game?

No. Carnell had the best start of any NFL RB last year with Griese playing average/below average.

Griese didnt miss WIDE OPEN recievers

You are right. He hit opposing defenders right on target. Mr. Law I am sure sent him some flowers by now. ;D


How can you say that teams didnt respect our passing last year? We were DEADLY down field

Griese did throw the INT's but who doesnt? Do you hear people talk about Peyton Manning...well he IS 9-0 but he throws a lot of INT's also

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#16 : November 16, 2006, 09:12:10 AM

For any one that cannot understand football.....Defenses the Bucs face have zero respect for the passing game, none at all.



Do you think however Chris Simms ability to burn you deep had anything to do with the running game?

No. Carnell had the best start of any NFL RB last year with Griese playing average/below average.

Griese didnt miss WIDE OPEN recievers

You are right. He hit opposing defenders right on target. Mr. Law I am sure sent him some flowers by now. ;D

For any one that cannot understand football.....Defenses the Bucs face have zero respect for the passing game, none at all.

Teams did not have respect of the Bucs passing game last year either with Simms or Griese. Only thing has changed is that Carnell's attempts are way down and the Bucs defense is worse.

Let me point out to you that this team last year was a top fifteen rushing team in terms of yards and attempts.


Do you think however Chris Simms ability to burn you deep had anything to do with the running game?

No. Carnell had the best start of any NFL RB last year with Griese playing average/below average.

Griese didnt miss WIDE OPEN recievers

You are right. He hit opposing defenders right on target. Mr. Law I am sure sent him some flowers by now. ;D


You can't give caddy 25 carries a game into a brick wall, he will get hurt, he will have a 6 year career..........



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#17 : November 16, 2006, 09:19:55 AM

How can you say that teams didnt respect our passing last year? We were DEADLY down field

Bucs 2005 regular season

Passing yards: #25 in all of the NFL
Passing TD's: tied at #23 in all of the NFL
Passing yards/game:  #25 in all of the NFL

Yeah deadly.....

Griese did throw the INT's but who doesnt? Do you hear people talk about Peyton Manning...well he IS 9-0 but he throws a lot of INT's also

Peyton Manning throws a lot of INT's? I will not even mention that Peyton that plays in a high risk/high reward offense.  But he also has to score points given the Colts defense is sub par.  With that said here are Griese's TD/INT ratios compared to Peyton Manning for 2005.

Peyton Manning: 28 TD's/ 10 Int's.
Brian Griese:  7 TD's/ 7 Int's.

This is not even close.

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#18 : November 16, 2006, 09:28:21 AM

For any one that cannot understand football.....Defenses the Bucs face have zero respect for the passing game, none at all.



Do you think however Chris Simms ability to burn you deep had anything to do with the running game?

No. Carnell had the best start of any NFL RB last year with Griese playing average/below average.

Griese didnt miss WIDE OPEN recievers

You are right. He hit opposing defenders right on target. Mr. Law I am sure sent him some flowers by now. ;D

For any one that cannot understand football.....Defenses the Bucs face have zero respect for the passing game, none at all.

Teams did not have respect of the Bucs passing game last year either with Simms or Griese. Only thing has changed is that Carnell's attempts are way down and the Bucs defense is worse.

Let me point out to you that this team last year was a top fifteen rushing team in terms of yards and attempts.


Do you think however Chris Simms ability to burn you deep had anything to do with the running game?

No. Carnell had the best start of any NFL RB last year with Griese playing average/below average.

Griese didnt miss WIDE OPEN recievers

You are right. He hit opposing defenders right on target. Mr. Law I am sure sent him some flowers by now. ;D


You can't give caddy 25 carries a game into a brick wall, he will get hurt, he will have a 6 year career..........

That is what people said last year but he was doing fine.  Carnell can handle the workload.  I mean it is not like Larry Johnson has an all world o-line blocking for him right now.  A few weeks ago he had  3 rushing TD's and 155 rushing yards but on 39 attempts.

Carnell has not even sniffed 25+ carries this year all that often.  As for wearing out Carnell in six years a RB's has an average career of three years.  If you were to be able to squeeze out six solid years that would be a good thing.  Ten?  That would be rare and very good.

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#19 : November 16, 2006, 09:30:27 AM

your argument FOR Grads in 06 counters your argument AGAINST Simms in 06 as they both have nu supporting cast.

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Gruden: Simms is gonna be a helluva quaterback- unless I screw it up.

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#20 : November 16, 2006, 09:31:07 AM

and ALL of these endless boringh threads about simms / grads is moot. Grads is Gruden's guy.

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Gruden: Simms is gonna be a helluva quaterback- unless I screw it up.

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#21 : November 16, 2006, 09:32:49 AM

your argument FOR Grads in 06 counters your argument AGAINST Simms in 06 as they both have nu supporting cast.

No not really.  It actually strengthens the arguement for Grads. Since both have operated in this offense with no Carnell ground game and a poor defense (defense has improved since then too but lets ignore that for now) this year Grads is still slightly ahead.

Simms will be a good QB in this league but I doubt it is in this offense.



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#22 : November 16, 2006, 10:14:02 AM

How can you say that teams didnt respect our passing last year? We were DEADLY down field

Bucs 2005 regular season

Passing yards: #25 in all of the NFL
Passing TD's: tied at #23 in all of the NFL
Passing yards/game: #25 in all of the NFL

Yeah deadly.....

Griese did throw the INT's but who doesnt? Do you hear people talk about Peyton Manning...well he IS 9-0 but he throws a lot of INT's also

Peyton Manning throws a lot of INT's? I will not even mention that Peyton that plays in a high risk/high reward offense. But he also has to score points given the Colts defense is sub par. With that said here are Griese's TD/INT ratios compared to Peyton Manning for 2005.

Peyton Manning: 28 TD's/ 10 Int's.
Brian Griese: 7 TD's/ 7 Int's.

This is not even close.


You get me wrong here, I am not comparing Brian Griese to Peyton Manning there is no comparison.
However what I was saying is that his 9-0 record doesnt have a disclamer that he throws INT's...because everyone does.

I agree Simms wont be in this offense next year. However I am just sick to my stomach that we are going through another year next year with a Quarterback that has a big ? worse off is we dont know what he can do. At least we know that with numero doce

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#23 : November 16, 2006, 10:16:30 AM

However I am just sick to my stomach that we are going through another year next year with a Quarterback that has a big ? worse off is we dont know what he can do. At least we know that with numero doce

Yes, we saw that clearly this year.

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#24 : November 16, 2006, 10:27:32 AM



You get me wrong here, I am not comparing Brian Griese to Peyton Manning there is no comparison.
However what I was saying is that his 9-0 record doesnt have a disclamer that he throws INT's...because everyone does.

Manning last year had a near 3:1 ratio of TD's/INT's.

This year Peyton Manning has 18 TD's and 3 INT's.  In other words so far his ratio is an amazing 6:1 ratio of TD's/INT's.  Griese's record last year had little to do with Griese.  It had a lot to do with a running game and good defense.

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#25 : November 16, 2006, 12:37:45 PM

I guess if you think Simms was great last year than you read that post to mean I think Grads is great too.
I didn't think Simms was that great, he was mediocre at best, but his nice deep ball gave hope, along with his relative youth.
Grads is not playing like a vet, he's playing a tiny bit better, if at all, than a typical rookie.  Nothing special.  And yet the statistical comparison is almost equal. 
The point the stats were trying to make is that people are "remembering" Simms as better than he actually was. 

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#26 : November 16, 2006, 01:35:21 PM

Those stats show that the numbers were close, but they are differant players Grad's tends to throw the short passes and uses his check downs most of the time. Last season teams were afraid of Simms's deep ball which helped the running game open up. With Grad's teams just have to make sure Gallaway is covered and stack a saftey in the box and wait for the run or a short pass. When teams do that more times than not they will stop us.
the defense had nothing to do with 6 straight 3 and outs on offense, or having the 31st rankind offense, in fact our poor offense play had made the D"s job harder.


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#27 : November 16, 2006, 01:38:04 PM

The running game looked the best with Griese not Simms nor Grads.  Reason why?  The Bucs o-line was able to run block and Carnell was given oppurtunties.

Carnell is the key to this offense but he has yet to have a game where he even reaches 30 carries. Now contrast that to last year.

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#28 : November 16, 2006, 01:47:04 PM

Those stats show that the numbers were close, but they are differant players Grad's tends to throw the short passes and uses his check downs most of the time. Last season teams were afraid of Simms's deep ball which helped the running game open up. With Grad's teams just have to make sure Gallaway is covered and stack a saftey in the box and wait for the run or a short pass. When teams do that more times than not they will stop us.
the defense had nothing to do with 6 straight 3 and outs on offense, or having the 31st rankind offense, in fact our poor offense play had made the D"s job harder.


So then why weren't teams "afraid of Simms' deep ball" this year?  Teams still put a lot in the box last year.  Whatever fear they had of him going deep was balanced by his inability to throw short...

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#29 : November 16, 2006, 02:08:42 PM

Those stats show that the numbers were close, but they are differant players Grad's tends to throw the short passes and uses his check downs most of the time. Last season teams were afraid of Simms's deep ball which helped the running game open up. With Grad's teams just have to make sure Gallaway is covered and stack a saftey in the box and wait for the run or a short pass. When teams do that more times than not they will stop us.
the defense had nothing to do with 6 straight 3 and outs on offense, or having the 31st rankind offense, in fact our poor offense play had made the D"s job harder.


So then why weren't teams "afraid of Simms' deep ball" this year? Teams still put a lot in the box last year. Whatever fear they had of him going deep was balanced by his inability to throw short...


Who the Ravens? yeah they are a weak defense LMAO, and our D giving up all those rushing yards to the Falcons had nothing to do with the options on offense... The one game he started to get back to his old form he gets his spleen busted.

As far as short passes 61% completions last season, 66% in December and he can't throw short huh?  well I guess that's why he doesn't go 3 and out 6 times in a row because he looks downfield, now there is a concept.... He likes to throw 11 yards on 3rd and 10 as opposed to 3...

Under your argument, though our O-line has more talent than last season, we have a mobile QB, (a Gruden guy) & we still can't run the ball. So saying Defenses should and will play close to the line against him because it stops the run and most of his favorite passing routes.

It is so funny how easy simple minds forget....Simms was one perfectly thrown and dropped pass away from actually winning a playoff game. Keep rooting for him to leave then we will be stuck with no QB and no coach, see how you feel then...
Gruden's ego has no bounds, if he can turn a 6th round turd into a premier QB he will truly be a QB Guru..well thats what he thinks anyway. So far he is 1 - 7 or 8 going back to Philly for picking QB's


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