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jsunm73

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#30 : November 17, 2006, 01:00:58 AM

personally i would like to see mcckown atleast once if healthy.he cannot be that bad.besides bruce seems to regressing each game.i thought he might be a good qb someday but would just like to see if mcckown can play at all?still if he is hurt then he is hurt.whoever starts is our qb for now.will grads be the guy to lead next year's team...only time will tell.imho he is going to be solid but not great.why can't we ever get a great qb like other teams.a gamechanger not a game manager.

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#31 : November 17, 2006, 02:57:54 AM

If Gruden thinks this is his guy I will live with it...however I am sick of this team letting experienced Quarterbacks go in favor of keeping the next best guy who always seems to be younger....

From what I see I dont see what Gruden sees in Bruce, I think next year he will come to the realization that he made his last mistake by letting Chris go

I thought they made a decent offer for Simms and he declined it? I'm not too sure on that, but if it is the case he didn't exactly "let Chris go"...



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#32 : November 17, 2006, 08:35:33 AM

personally i would like to see mcckown atleast once if healthy.he cannot be that bad.besides bruce seems to regressing each game.i thought he might be a good qb someday but would just like to see if mcckown can play at all?still if he is hurt then he is hurt.whoever starts is our qb for now.will grads be the guy to lead next year's team...only time will tell.imho he is going to be solid but not great.why can't we ever get a great qb like other teams.a gamechanger not a game manager.

I don't think that there is much upside in trying McCown.  I also disagree that Grads is regressing.  This last week, he did see the field better and took his shots, but missed the timing.  I'm hoping he gets on track, though.

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#33 : November 17, 2006, 08:56:44 AM

You cannot judge regression. Gruden probably can, but there are always going to be stumbles in a young QB's career.

As dal said, wait until the end of next year to begin the major evaluations. At that point, we should know from experience what we have.

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#34 : November 17, 2006, 01:02:01 PM

dalbuc's right - 2 years is the dividing line. Guys who don't start getting it by then, don't ever get it. Football Outsiders has a stat called "points above replacement" that is a measuring stick for players - positives are good, negatives are bad (Gradkowski is currently negative, Simms was negative, but worse). QBs that were negative for their first two years as starters are bums, without exception. I'm talking names like Leaf, Couch, Quincy Carter, Akili Smith, etc.  If Gradkowski doesn't improve this year or next, the odds are that he simply won't improve.

I'm hopeful that Gradkowski can make the leap, but I really don't like the idea of him going in without competition - isn't that pretty much what happened this year?

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#35 : November 17, 2006, 05:45:33 PM

dalbuc's right - 2 years is the dividing line. Guys who don't start getting it by then, don't ever get it. Football Outsiders has a stat called "points above replacement" that is a measuring stick for players - positives are good, negatives are bad (Gradkowski is currently negative, Simms was negative, but worse). QBs that were negative for their first two years as starters are bums, without exception. I'm talking names like Leaf, Couch, Quincy Carter, Akili Smith, etc.  If Gradkowski doesn't improve this year or next, the odds are that he simply won't improve.

I'm hopeful that Gradkowski can make the leap, but I really don't like the idea of him going in without competition - isn't that pretty much what happened this year?
Simms was supposed to have some competition in McCown.  Whether that would have happend is unknowable, but a moot point anyway.  No way did anyone expect a rookie to compete with him and Rattay just sux rox.

BUCFAN4LIFE

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#36 : November 17, 2006, 08:15:21 PM

WHy is it that the same people that say "Don't bash Grads he is just a rookie he is supposed to struggle..." are the same people who say FIRE GRUDEN?

They are ??? I haven't noticed any real connection between the two.


WOuldn't the same lame excuse apply for Gruden?  If a rookie QB is expected to struggle, shouldn't the coach of a rookie QB not be expected to win a bunch of games?  You can't have it both ways......

That is a completely different thing all together. A manager is paid to run an organization successfully, which in the NFL means win. When a manager fails after a few years in his post he is accountable for the lack of success. We may have a rookie QB starting but who picked the roster and left the team in that vulnerable situation.

MJS - not like he tried to do that-- they resigned their starter from last year- had to part with BG even thought they tried to redo a contract withh him but he woul;dn't come off the guranteed 7 mil we did not have. Tried to get a cheap vet in here in Fiedler and he couldn't get healthy. McCown goes down in TC and we are stuck with Rattay and a rookie. After resigning Hovan and reupping Ronde for cap relief all we had left was the dead cap hits and enough to sign the draft class. Plain and simple Gruden/Allen were handcuffed into the situation. Dont you think thyey would have gone after a McNair or other good vet if they had the monies to do so. They just didn't have the cap to do it and sign the other need positions and the draft class. Being tight against the cap I thought they were pretty wise in the offseason to try and make do and sign the guys they needed to bring back the team that had alot of success the prior year.

Who knew Simms would have a melt down and blow a spleen. Who knew the defense would have a total collpase. Hard to have the insurance policy players without cap.


mjs020294

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#37 : November 17, 2006, 08:24:39 PM

There are mitigating circumstances for sure, but at some point you run out of excuses.  They had plenty of cap space when they brought in Steussie, Garner, Deese and the other old bums.  We have had a full set of draft picks the last couple of seasons.

Like it or not Gruden and Allen are on the clock, and they need a much better season on 2007.


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#38 : November 18, 2006, 12:42:19 AM

They didn't have plenty of cap back then-- they were reaching back then as well on mid tier FA's with mid tier monies and had to find 3 areas to cover -- who knew Garner would blow out his good knee, Steussie while he played like crap is still a starter and not doing bad at all for the Rams right now. Mid tier OL guy past his prime but the Rams are sure getting more than the dunder headed Muir ever got. Deese who knew the strange foot injury would happen-- prior to that he only allowed 2 sacks. Point is the guys were mid tier FA's-- nether had big FA deals and thats why we cleared their hits in a years time-- Garner and Steussie we overpayed for IMO and they were both mistakes but hindsight is 20/20. But it wasn't big money, the likes of what you spend on quality. Other than those 2 the FO has been pretty solid, and they haven't had crap to spend for the most part. I think we'll see better quality for monies this year since we can actually be a player on the FA and have a full slate of drafts. As for your notion of having 2 full rounds -- you can't even really grade a draft class for 3 years. If Clayton can come back around I'ld say their drafts have been decent and have a chance of turning out to be pretty good. JMHO

And i agree they have one more year-- if they can't show alot of prgrees with 25 mil and another full slate than i agreee their time is up.


jsunm73

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#39 : November 18, 2006, 12:55:54 AM

so you think grads is playing better since his 1st game against the saints beniro?i don't. he is making alot of rookie mistakes.yes he is young but in what way is he improving?more turnovers.missing open recievers.over throwing the ball.i think his head is swimming.it is alot too ask but if he is so unflappable and a true gamebreaker then i must have missed it.i do like him better than simms yet there is something about him that just says solid not great.kind of like dilfer was.once he proves he can win us some games and improve his accuracy then i will not label him as regressing.until then he is nothing special.he is just a game mananger not gamebreaker.i just wish for once we could have a qb with 3000 yards and 25 tds in a season.hopefully bruce will prove me and some of his other doubters wrong.until he does though i have the right to my opinion too.

BUCFAN4LIFE

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#40 : November 18, 2006, 08:06:15 AM

Just Once huh-- you must have been thrilled with 7-9 2003 season. BJ put up close to 4000yds and 26 TD's that year.

BTW in the NO's game that we lost that was the first time anyone saw Grads-- now DC's have tape on his tendencies and he'll have to learn to adjust. As for the rookie did you forget Cincy and Philly games where the kid did show he can be a game breaker with those 2 4th quarter plays with little to no time left--one he set up the FG-- the other he fired a strike for the winning TD. He is also well ahead of the curve for a rookie. Check his stats vs the other 2 rooks that were drafted for 10's of millions more. If you ask me he is doing about what you expect for a rookie-- flashes of brilliance and flashes of rookie mistakes.

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