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DBuc

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#30 : November 16, 2006, 11:52:10 AM

You can win year in and out with the cap but you need the following things to work for you...In order to have lots of quality players in their 5th, 6th, 7th and 8th years in the league right now(which was the original point of this post) you have to either have been drafting well between 1998 to 2002 and/or signing good free agents AND managing the cap well.  Well, we did not draft that well during this period...out of 38 players picked, only Kelly and Wymms can be called quality players still with us (sorry Kenyatta does not count)...Dexter Jackson would have been the other good pickup but he is no longer here.  Also, starting in 2002 ...we lost a lot  picks due to the Gruden trade...  As far as the cap goes, well...we know what a mess it has been.  I am glad the McKay signed a lot of good players (finally) the Super Bowl year...but it was not just expensive but they also handicapped us for the next 4 years...Bad drafts with limited picks over 4-5 years + poor cap management = current team.  I will take the Super Bowl, however...

Of course some people on this board refuse to believe empirical evidence...They think that you can win with a combination of players who are either still in their rookie contracts or over 32 years of age.  I already mentioned this in a different post...look at the starting lineups of quality teams in the league over the years...They have not been winning with lineups like this.  Fans with sense realize that we did what we had to do to win the Super Bowl and are willing to accept it...and are applauding the fact that our front office has finally got the cap under control, drafted well, and have a great chance to turn it around next year...

By the way...Gruden did turn around the offense the Super Bowl season...Anyone who has ever played or coached knows that you can't take over a team in your first year with all sorts of new players on offense(Pittman, Joe J., McCardell, Dilger, Dudley, Oben) and start scoring points right off the bat...it takes time to get it going...but if you look at the average number of points the team averaged in the last 8 games of the season, including the playoffs and the Super Bowl...we scored between 27-28 points per game.  That is a full touchdown more than the season before...Oh yeah, after going from 11-5 to 10-6 to 9-7 and scoring no offensive touchdowns in the postseason...to 12-4 (best Bucs record ever) and winning the Super Bowl...I would not think that it is going on a limb to say Gruden helped us.

captaindabblin

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#31 : November 16, 2006, 12:00:07 PM

   Truth be told, Gruden assembled just enough offensive talent to get us a Super Bowl Trophy. We were never a dominant team. Nobody I know of expected us to even get by the Eagles up there in the playoffs, let alone win it all.  
   A few years later, injuries and the declining skills of several veterans has set us back significantly. We had little depth from the McKay era to help us rebuild with. Draft choices were the payment to get Gruden. And a tight salary cap (from the McKay era) kept us from being major players in free agency. Attempts at 'dabbling' in free agency, always risky, mostly didn't pan out.
   The receiving corp of McCardell, Keyshawn, and Jurevicius is easily the best we've ever had here. Right now, the only decent receiver I've seen on the Bucs is Hilliard. By "decent" I mean a guy who gets to and hangs onto the da** ball when it's thrown his way. Speed is irrelavent if the guy can't adjust to the ball and hang onto it. All 3 of our Super Bowl receivers had that trait, and none of them was notably fast. And OBTW, neither was Jerry Rice...
   All the Gradkowski bashing over his erratic long-range accuracy is irrelavent, as our receiver's haven't demonstrated they can catch the ball when it does come to them! Sounds like our receivers coach is aware of the problem...

   http://www.sptimes.com/2006/11/16/Bucs/Drops_become_costly_f.shtml
    

keeponbucn

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#32 : November 16, 2006, 12:10:12 PM

You can win year in and out with the cap but you need the following things to work for you...In order to have lots of quality players in their 5th, 6th, 7th and 8th years in the league right now(which was the original point of this post) you have to either have been drafting well between 1998 to 2002 and/or signing good free agents AND managing the cap well.  Well, we did not draft that well during this period...out of 38 players picked, only Kelly and Wymms can be called quality players still with us (sorry Kenyatta does not count)...Dexter Jackson would have been the other good pickup but he is no longer here.  Also, starting in 2002 ...we lost a lot  picks due to the Gruden trade...  As far as the cap goes, well...we know what a mess it has been.  I am glad the McKay signed a lot of good players (finally) the Super Bowl year...but it was not just expensive but they also handicapped us for the next 4 years...Bad drafts with limited picks over 4-5 years + poor cap management = current team.  I will take the Super Bowl, however...

Of course some people on this board refuse to believe empirical evidence...They think that you can win with a combination of players who are either still in their rookie contracts or over 32 years of age.  I already mentioned this in a different post...look at the starting lineups of quality teams in the league over the years...They have not been winning with lineups like this.  Fans with sense realize that we did what we had to do to win the Super Bowl and are willing to accept it...and are applauding the fact that our front office has finally got the cap under control, drafted well, and have a great chance to turn it around next year...

By the way...Gruden did turn around the offense the Super Bowl season...Anyone who has ever played or coached knows that you can't take over a team in your first year with all sorts of new players on offense(Pittman, Joe J., McCardell, Dilger, Dudley, Oben) and start scoring points right off the bat...it takes time to get it going...but if you look at the average number of points the team averaged in the last 8 games of the season, including the playoffs and the Super Bowl...we scored between 27-28 points per game.  That is a full touchdown more than the season before...Oh yeah, after going from 11-5 to 10-6 to 9-7 and scoring no offensive touchdowns in the postseason...to 12-4 (best Bucs record ever) and winning the Super Bowl...I would not think that it is going on a limb to say Gruden helped us.


I think this is a great post DBuc, well done.

TBYFLBuc

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#33 : November 16, 2006, 12:25:42 PM

We're dealing with a team that won a SB on the back-side of their peak. Those of us fans that live in reality knew it would come and aren't insane at this point. Those that live in la la land and still think Lynch and Sapp should be here and Alstott should carry the ball more are really having a hard time letting go. Those times are over, it's going to take more rough times to build a team to be competitive again. It took forever before, the Bucs mortgaged the future to win a SB, they accomplished that and are now feeling the pain.



Don't get it twisted, the SB makes it worth it. There is no questioning that. Ask an Eagle fan what he'd rather have.

Look at Baltimore, they haven't been the same since the 2000 SB. Now, after 6 years they're competitive again.

Awesome post!! I always thought we could/SHOULD have won in 2000 and 2001. Even in 1999 I felt our defense had it 2nd best year EVER and who knows if Dilfer doesn't get hurt we prob make it to the SB that year. We mortgaged the future 2-3 years b/f the SB win and luckily we cashed it in the nick of time.  But the team was built to get OLD and contracts implode by 2004 and thats what happened. Better drafting and FA signing could have help but after 2003 people had to see this coming.   Its like buying a bunch of stuff on a credit card then **CENSORED**ing about having to pay the bill. Stop the **CENSORED**ing we are paying the bill.

DBuc

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#34 : November 16, 2006, 12:34:14 PM

Thanks...made one mistake though...We average 26.09 per game under Gruden in the last 8 games...the year before we averaged 20 per game.  Still a big improvement.
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