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1sparkybuc

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#30 : November 23, 2007, 08:58:43 PM

the difference between Carnell and the guys you listed  is that they've produced.... he hasn't.

Great pure runner? I respect your opinion but don't agree. What I have seen is a one-dimensional, oft-injured back that lacks breakaway speed and is a liability both as a pass receiver and pass protector.

When I think of a "great pure runner", I think of LT of course but also a guy like Westbrook, Portis or Tiki. These guys are/were great pure runners. Carnell is average, at best.
Not very often that I totally agree with you, but this is one.

Yugo Williams wil be ready to play again in 2009. I can't wait to see if he survives TC. Great college player, but NFL, not so much so far. Good luck to him.

gone

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#31 : November 23, 2007, 09:02:46 PM

Dunn is a lock to the Hall Of Fame while Alstott will fall short

Dunn has NO BUSINESS in the HOF.  He's a great guy, gave a ton to the community.  But he's never been one of the elite backs in the league.  He's always been in the tier right below, with occasional years even worse.  Dunn to HOF would be a travesty.


alldaway

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#32 : November 23, 2007, 09:34:01 PM

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Not very often that I totally agree with you, but this is one.

Yugo Williams wil be ready to play again in 2009. I can't wait to see if he survives TC. Great college player, but NFL, not so much so far. Good luck to him

So how is Luke McCown doing since you have such great insight and know so much about Yugo Williams? :D

alldaway

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#33 : November 23, 2007, 09:36:49 PM

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Gore, yes, but with LJ everyone and their mother talked about what happens to running backs after they get 400+ carries in a season so this should not be unexpected at all

Explain to all of us Stephen Jackson's great season thus far?

finnbluebucs

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#34 : November 23, 2007, 10:20:40 PM

Right now, Graham is a better fit in this offense. While he doesn't have the long run threat that Carnell possesses, Graham is real solid out of the backfield. Also, Carnell tends to dance around the LOS a little too much looking for a crease to develop, whilst Graham just blasts straight into any little seam thats there. I really want Caddy to succeed because I think his running ability is comparable to any other back WHEN HEALTHY, but when hes got hurt ribs or whatever he becomes far too indecisive. As mjs said, the main problem Caddy has is that he is in a WCO which currently is a bad fit for him because he can't catch.

\"We are frustrated at not making the playoffs. It is a good start. That is all it is. It is a good start for something that we are going to be in the future. - Josh Freeman



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#35 : November 23, 2007, 10:55:26 PM

Right now, Graham is a better fit in this offense. While he doesn't have the long run threat that Carnell possesses

Where is this long run threat that Carnell possesses? Am i missing something?

Not very often that I totally agree with you, but this is one.

See, there's hope for you yet  ;)

alldaway

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#36 : November 23, 2007, 11:05:21 PM

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Caddy has is that he is in a WCO which currently is a bad fit for him because he can't catch.

So what makes Shaun Alexander a good fit for Holmgren's WCO?  Simply put I think Holmgren and Gruden know what they want out of their RB's for the WCO no?

dbucfan

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#37 : November 23, 2007, 11:09:08 PM

Everything that explains Caddy's performance is an excuse - so why try?  I have read this tripe repeatedly on this board - I don't know why folks continue to debate this - especially while we all wait to see if he ever gets healthy enough to play in the league again.

Some of the same folks who dislike Caddy are selling a rotation with backs - like EG, and Pittman and Bennett.  Hmm - Pittman and Bennett are in the last year of their bucc contract - and EG - we will see.  Right now he is very much appreciated - he has manfully filled a huge hole in a manner no one thought he was capable of.  Nothing bad about EG.  But buccs will need a couple of RBs so we will see.

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

MiltonMack21

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#38 : November 23, 2007, 11:27:58 PM

Caddy was a wasted pick at number 5.. can't catch, can't block and is injury prone.


bklynbucs11

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#39 : November 23, 2007, 11:29:28 PM

wow I am now dumber for reading that


That made absolutely no sense


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He's been running exactly the same way for the last decade probably because he hasn't the sense to learn otherwise. Get the ball, run straight. Get ball, run straight. He doesn't see holes.


He hasn't the sense to learn otehrwise? It seems he was just retarded enough to find enough holes to break Bo Jackson's TD record at Auburn. He cant find the holes, because there havent been many. Quit following the football on every play, and look at whats going on around him. When there is a hole, Caddy always find sit. Thats what I love so much about the guy. He has a great feel for the position



I'll ignore the benign insult its no less than I expected. Caddy has run the same way for the last decade - straight. This is fine in high school when you are a superior athlete. At the collegiate level too because its primarily straight ahead blocking. In the NFL though, its not going to work. There are delayed blocks and pressure comes from multiple directions. The good backs are the ones who can anticipate the hole, who not only know where the hole is now, but where their blocking is going. THIS requires a mental understanding for the position. Watch Graham run. Sure he's a bruiser and doesn't have the pure running ability of Carnell. But he sets up his blocks. If you remember on one particular run, Graham set himself up perfectly behind Joseph who was moving to the second level. By getting behind his blocker and being patient, Graham was able to pick up a sizeable gain. That may even have been the TD run. If you recall Ernest's first TD run against the Rams - same thing. He kicked out to Joseph and Trueblood's side, waiting for them to clear the lane. Had he run directly into them as Caddy does, its a 3 yard gain. He waited for the Hole to open and hit it. This is what Caddy doesn't do. Even Mike Pittman, who has average vision, maybe slightly above average for RB's, is far and away better at anticipating the blocks. Why do you think the Broncos have such a good ground game (other than the cut blocks) and why zone-blocking works so well? Their runners work with the O-line and anticipate the hole rather than charge the LOS

But have it your way. Caddy is the best of everything and he's an elite back. This is what i like to call the "I'm closing my ears so i don't have to listen to anyone else" argument. Enjoy.

alldaway

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#40 : November 23, 2007, 11:37:12 PM

bklynbucs11

I think you have a different defintion of vision.  I will break it down into two parts (vision around the line of scrimmage and open field vision).

Pittman is far from average vision.  It is more like sub par (posses subpar vision around the line of scrimmage and open field vision) and it shows as he is more of a natural WR (explains why he is one of the better route running RB's in the leauge).  I agree Graham has good vision around the line of scrimmage despite lacking the extra burst.  Open field not sure about becuase his lack of athletic ability hampers him from showcasing if he does posses that trait as well.

But where Carnell's vision shines is in the open field.  I do not disagree Carnell's vision could use work around the line of scrimmage but once in the open field Carnell is one of the better open field backs on this squad.  Only other player that posses good open field vision is Darby who has a very similar running style to Carnell in the open field.

As for zone blocking schemes they are rather simple and it explains why it is so easy to plug and play running backs. 




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#41 : November 23, 2007, 11:38:26 PM

If Carnell played for another team, folks would recognize him for the disappointment that he's become. However, he's a Buc(for now) so that makes him a "great" back.

But where Carnell's vision shines is in the open field.  I do not disagree Carnell's vision could use work around the line of scrimmage but once in the open field Carnell is one of the better open field backs on this squad.  Only other player that posses good open field vision is Darby who has a very similar running style to Carnell in the open field.

I'll respectfully argue this sentiment..... what i've seen Carnell do in open field is run to contact. An rb that i'd consider "shining" in the open field is Westbrook and Carnell can't hold his jock.

alldaway

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#42 : November 23, 2007, 11:44:23 PM

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I'll respectfully argue this sentiment..... what i've seen Carnell do in open field is run to contact

Adrian Peterson does this as well.  But I would not argue that they do not posses open field vision becuase they seek contact.  I would say they are reckless in their playstyle. 

Peterson has the acceleration (unlike Carnell) to outrun defenders but seeks out contact just like Carnell. :P




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#43 : November 23, 2007, 11:50:43 PM

Peterson has the acceleration (unlike Carnell) to outrun defenders but seeks out contact just like Carnell. :P

I won't argue that one bit .... Peterson does take(in some cases) unnecessary punishment and hopefully he'll change that part of his game because he's truly a special talent and a joy to watch... something Carnell is not.

alldaway

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#44 : November 23, 2007, 11:54:29 PM

Carnell running over Lawyer Milloy will always be a joy to rewatch thank you very much.  8)But yes watching Adrian Peterson run is like watching Bo Jackson reincarnated.

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