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BUCarino

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#30 : November 24, 2007, 11:05:41 AM

I think Coach Gruden doesn't know how to groom a young QB. As long as he's our head coach, we'll need to go to the wiley old QBs.

UH??? You do know he was given a lot of credit with the work he did with a young Bret Favre? When Mike Holgren left the 49ers to take the HC job with the Packers he brought Gruden along with him to be his Offensive Assistant as Holmgren himself did the OC duties, but Gruden worked closely with Favre.
I'm sure Gruden worked with Favre to some degree but he was primarily the receivers' coach for the Packers. He also took coffee orders. I'm not trying to demean the man, just being realistic.

With a stupid comment like that you are trying to demean the man, so do not give us that realistic crap to cover it up, just be honest!  Favre himself gives some credit to Gruden as I have heard him mention Gruden many times.  Gruden was categorized as the receivers coach as the Packers didn't have a OC or QB coach as Holmgren assumed those duties. Gruden was labeled as the Offensive Asst. and not just the receivers coach.  Grudens 3 years with the Packers and his work with Favre is what got him noticed as he was only like 28 at the the time.

Gruden was then grabbed by Ray Rhodes and made the youngest OC in NFL history with the Eagle's and then a few years later by Al Davis as the youngest HC in NFL history.  I just get a kick out of some of you guys who try to demean Gruden due to your frikkin penis envy as I would love to see some of you fools resume's?  Gruden has one of the most impressive resume's in the NFL to be so young!

As far as Gradkowski and Simms go that's just a piss poor analogy there as the jury is still out on Gradkowski as this is just his 2nd season and he was a frikkin 6th round pick for Gods sake and Simms busted his frikkin spleen, was that Gruden's fault?  Who knows what Simms would have done if he had not been so seriously injured?

All I know is Rich Gannon gives Gruden all the credit for resurrecting his career?  All you have to do is look at Gannon's long career stats as he was a journeyman QB who played for quite a few teams over the years, but NEVER threw over 2,000 yds. in a season, but twice and was always a mediocre QB and a backup at most places.  In every year he played for Gruden he threw for right at 4,000 yds. or more with an average of over 25 TD's per season and was a Pro Bowler almost every year.  Was it a coincidence that a year after Gruden was gone Gannon was basically finished?

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#31 : November 24, 2007, 11:10:53 AM

The guy is very impressive. I don't know how his arm doesn't get tired after throwing so many passes each game. I'd love to see the Bucs take Brennan if he is avaliable in the 2nd round.


BuccanAy

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#32 : November 24, 2007, 12:07:10 PM

Well said Bucarino. 

BUCarino

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#33 : November 24, 2007, 12:13:13 PM

Well said Bucarino.

Thanks!  I have no problem with those who do not like Gruden as I can understand that, but to disrespect the man is just downright stupid.  I have a great appreciation of what he has accomplished at such a young age as many do not realize he is only 44, which is 5 years younger then myself, but he has a very impressive 18 year NFL resume as he started his NFL coaching career when he was only 26.  I may not like and agree with everything he does, whcih I do not, but I do have great respect for him and will nto disrespect him with stupid comments.

Funny though how Gruden is very well respected aroud the NFL more then he is by many fans of his own team?

"Life's too short not to live in caution,
But life's too long not to live at all!"

Morgan

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#34 : November 24, 2007, 12:23:03 PM

Look, Gruden's success has always been with older vets like Gannon, Brad Johnson and now Garcia. He's failed with Gradkowski and Simms.  His offense is too much to grasp for new, inexperienced QBs.  No one disrespects Gruden for this. You're reading into the posts.

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#35 : November 24, 2007, 12:35:22 PM

How can you say he's failed with Grad. a 6th round pick who was thrown into the starting role, and played very well for a couple of games.  Simms also had his moments but was never a good fit for Grudens offense.  Gradkowski may develop into a Garcia, it's way to early.   Hell, Gaines is still learning, how 'bout the learning curve of a QB.  Rediculous to say he's failed with Grad.  Maybe we get a 1st of 2nd rd pick at QB before you say he cant develop a QB. 

LA BUC

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#36 : November 24, 2007, 01:00:24 PM

It reminded me of this really good Pop warner game I was wathing. He looks really small to me.  Is he like 5'11" 175?

BuccanAy

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#37 : November 24, 2007, 01:04:19 PM

It reminded me of this really good Pop warner game I was wathing. He looks really small to me. Is he like 5'11" 175?

6'3"  200

LA BUC

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#38 : November 24, 2007, 01:15:19 PM

 Wow! I was JK , Is he a high 1st rd pick ? His passes are right on the money.  6'3" if he is still there for us I say take him.

JavaBuc

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#39 : November 24, 2007, 01:48:00 PM

I'd take him in the 1st round. He's that good.


Java,
most of your points are spot on...but are you serious Brennan in the 1st, please tell me you are just being facetious...Gruden has proven he can't develop a young QB and I expect our QB of the future to be Grads or a free agent yet to be determined...JMO

I don't know about most of my posts being spot on, but I am serious that I'd take Brennan in the first round if he's there when we pick (which may be the 32nd pick in the draft).   I believe Garcia has 2 more years at most.   Gradkowski stinks.   McCown is never going to be anything.    Simms is history.  I think Gruden can bring him along eventually.   

alldaway

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#40 : November 24, 2007, 01:59:13 PM

Colt Breenan's stock is all over the place.  Some have him as a mid 1st rounder and some as low as the top of the 3rd round.  But there is a consensus that he is definately a day one pick as of now.

Colt does not have the bulk you want out of a QB and Colt also is labeled as a system QB.  If he shakes the label of being just a system QB he is easily a 1st rounder (mid to late).

BUCarino

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#41 : November 24, 2007, 02:23:38 PM

It reminded me of this really good Pop warner game I was wathing. He looks really small to me. Is he like 5'11" 175?

You must have a very small TV?  He is 6'3"!  He looked every bit of it to me! 

Pop warner really?  That's a pretty strange comment as that was one of the more physical games I have seen in college football this season!  There was some tremendous hitting going on by both sides.

"Life's too short not to live in caution,
But life's too long not to live at all!"

BUCarino

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#42 : November 24, 2007, 02:30:56 PM

Look, Gruden's success has always been with older vets like Gannon, Brad Johnson and now Garcia. He's failed with Gradkowski and Simms. His offense is too much to grasp for new, inexperienced QBs. No one disrespects Gruden for this. You're reading into the posts.


With all due respect that's just a stupid post!  Gradkowski is a frikkin 2nd year player!  Do you know how many years John Elway sucked before he became good?  He was a top pick also!  You guys who are ready to give up on players after one year crack me up! :)

I have no doubt you were also one of the ones who was calling Brian Kelly, Ronde Barber, John Lynch, Warren Sapp, etc. busts after their rookie seasons also, huh?  I remember very well Buc's fans calling those players busts after their first year or two!  They kind of look foolish now huh?

Anyway how many 6th round drafted QB's actually even make it in the NFL?  For Gods sake Simms lost his spleen, he did lead us to the playoffs the year before right?  We would have won that playoff game and advanced also if Edell Sheppard had rolled over like they teach all WR's to do.  Now Simms is a failure just because he lost his spleen playing for the Buc's, is that about right?

You've never played football have you, just asking?  :(

"Life's too short not to live in caution,
But life's too long not to live at all!"

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#43 : November 24, 2007, 03:07:32 PM

Look, Gruden's success has always been with older vets like Gannon, Brad Johnson and now Garcia. He's failed with Gradkowski and Simms.  His offense is too much to grasp for new, inexperienced QBs.  No one disrespects Gruden for this. You're reading into the posts.
 

This statement lacks in logic.  Grads is a 6th round guy in his second year.  He's exceeded the expectations of a QB from that slot.  That's not a failure.  II guess you expected him to be the next Brady, and anything else gets an "F"?

Failed with Simms?  Maybe Simms just sucked.  Not every guy is going to make it, regardless of how well you coach them.  Given how long it took Simms to learn something as basic as the exchange, it's pretty clear where the problem was, and it wasn't the coaching.

The evidence for the "can't develop young QB's" is close to non-existent.  He's had one draftee that he coached that didn't live up to the hype that his name and pretty face built up. 


STULAAKE

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#44 : November 24, 2007, 03:52:29 PM

I'd take him in the 1st round. He's that good.

Java,
most of your points are spot on...but are you serious Brennan in the 1st, please tell me you are just being facetious...Gruden has proven he can't develop a young QB and I expect our QB of the future to be Grads or a free agent yet to be determined...JMO

I don't know about most of my posts being spot on, but I am serious that I'd take Brennan in the first round if he's there when we pick (which may be the 32nd pick in the draft).   I believe Garcia has 2 more years at most.   Gradkowski stinks.   McCown is never going to be anything.    Simms is history. I think Gruden can bring him along eventually.   



I think you are giving up on Grads to soon...based on that opinion until a decision is based on Grads' future with the team, it would not be smart to invest a 1st round, 2nd or any other round on another QB...IMO

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