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Morgan

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#15 : December 01, 2007, 01:52:54 AM

The surge is working thats why you dont hear to much about Iraq in the news these days. It IS getting better.
Give it another 4-6 months and troops may begin to come home for good.

I'm afraid that we'll be occupying both Afghanistan and Iraq for decades as we are in Germany.

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#16 : December 01, 2007, 12:07:10 AM

Considering the northern part of Iraq (Kurdish region) is falling apart as we speak no.  The surge is putting a band aid on a deep wound.  Anyone that believes that this is working for the long term is only fooling themselves.

After so many years the Iraqi police/military are still not up to the task of taking control of their country and their democracy is at a grind halt.  That will not change once troop levels decrease. And once the cats are gone the mice will play once more.


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#17 : December 01, 2007, 10:20:58 AM

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ADW, the surge has been at full capacity for maybe 4 months.  The generals admit that the Iraqis aren't ready, BUT, they say that they're very pleased with how far they've come since the first of the year.

The point of the surge was to buy time for the Iraqi government to pull their crap together.  That hasn't happened and there still is corruption among the Iraqi military/police.   Meanwhile violence in northern Iraq has increased (huge increase in women being burned alive due to honor killings) and the Turks are conducting multiple, shor,t military incursions against Kurdish terrorirsts that hide there as we speak.

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ufojoe, the bandaid analogy are both of your opinions.

Actually that is my opinion and the correct one.  The surge is more of a PR ploy if the end result is the Iraqi government is still dysfunctional.  Anyone that has long term vision can see this means nothing if the Iraqi government can not pull it together.  At least the Afghan government can actually function somewhat even with the various warlords and come to a commmon ground despite Al Qaeda's resurgence. The surge was supposed to bring sectarian violence down (that part is done) so the split up Iraqi government could not use it as an excuse for not trying to cooperate with each other (That hasn't happened). 

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The generals admit that the Iraqis aren't ready, BUT, they say that they're very pleased with how far they've come since the first of the year.

All I care about is seeing a functioning democracy not what is said for PR purposes.

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You can argue if you want about if we should have gone or not, but, the fact is the situation NOW that we're trying to clean up.   A smart commander in chief wouldn't pull out just to get the troops home (they do volunteer for duty, you know, they know what may happen, they're ok with that for the honor of the country).

If the Iraqi governement even with the sectarian violence down as of now refuses to cooperate then there is nothing more we can do.  We have done our part but they refuses to do their part.  If the Iraqi government is still in the fetal posiition after all this time we can't force the issue.  We can't tell them to put aside thousands of years of hatred.  That is like telling the Palestinians and Israelis to work together...in other words that is not happening anytime soon. The only saving grace is that they are all Iraqis but they still see the differences not the similarities.

A smart commander and chief would pull them out if the situation that looks hopeless (eg. Ronald Regan).  A smart commander and chief would understand the importance of diplomacy and obtaining the support of the world community in engaging in an operation/endeavor (eg. Bush Sr).

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A smart commander in chief will let Patreaus finish the mission and draw down when it makes sense.  Everybody knows we'll be in the area even after the majority of the troops come home.  No, I think the surge is a "cast" that the doc will take off when the legs can walk on their own.

What is the point of the cast if the patient refuses to let the leg heal?  You can apply multiple casts if you desire but if the patient refuses to cooperate and do their part to let it heal then it is hopeless. 

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Spare me with the "don't just listen to rush" comments.  I don't have time to listen to Rush.  How about "don't just listen to mainstream media" which has been found that an overwhelming majority of their "reporters" vote for democrats?

 I have met many liberals that are the same just like you. Liberals will claim that the mainstream media is controlled by the government and by rich, powerfull individuals (eg Murdoch).  While righties will claim the mass media is purely liberal and against anything that is conservatism.

I laugh when I hear both sides claim this absurdness.  The media in the United States is a joke.  There isn't enough talk about issues in this country despite the rise of prominence of the 24 hours news network.

What righties and liberals claim is partial right but in the end the media is a corporate entity so it is only interested in the bottom line ($$$) not political ideologies as has been claimed.

Rupert Murdoch has thrown his support towards Hillary.  Why?  Is it because of political ideologies?  Most likely not rather it is because of ($$$).

dr3z

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#18 : December 01, 2007, 10:40:38 AM

I first went to Iraq 5 years ago and let me tell you, it was like a video game. Stuff going on EVERYDAY. Went back in 2004, still got some mortars but
less and less small arms fire as my months there went by. My coworker was there again this year (Apr-Oct) and he says its change 100%, the whole
time he was there maybe one day of small arms, everything else was just regular patrols. IED's were big, but even those are getting less and less
on our troops. FYI we were at Camp Victory Bahgdad, so its not like we were in the south or north for that matter.

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#19 : December 01, 2007, 12:07:33 PM

More from Murtha and clarification of his remarks...

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07335/838342-84.stm

superbuc

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#20 : December 01, 2007, 12:39:44 PM

More from Murtha and clarification of his remarks...

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07335/838342-84.stm

Thanks, Joe.  He didn't have to clarify (for me) as he said the Iraqi govt. is dysfunctional.

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#21 : December 01, 2007, 12:48:29 PM

I first went to Iraq 5 years ago and let me tell you, it was like a video game. Stuff going on EVERYDAY. Went back in 2004, still got some mortars but
less and less small arms fire as my months there went by. My coworker was there again this year (Apr-Oct) and he says its change 100%, the whole
time he was there maybe one day of small arms, everything else was just regular patrols. IED's were big, but even those are getting less and less
on our troops. FYI we were at Camp Victory Bahgdad, so its not like we were in the south or north for that matter.
Are you in the military or a contractor?  Regardless, thanks for your work. 

How does the majority of the Iraqi public react to Americans?


Morgan

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#22 : December 01, 2007, 01:27:03 PM

Saw a stat today on some reputable new source that says now US Forces in  Afghanistan has more deaths per 10,000 soldiers (4/10,000) than Iraq (2/10).  Not sure if that means anything about progress in Iraq  -  or maybe Afghanistan is getting out of hand.

dr3z

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#23 : December 01, 2007, 01:41:31 PM

Military (ARMY) stationed at MacDill (SOCOM).........
I first went to Iraq 5 years ago and let me tell you, it was like a video game. Stuff going on EVERYDAY. Went back in 2004, still got some mortars but
less and less small arms fire as my months there went by. My coworker was there again this year (Apr-Oct) and he says its change 100%, the whole
time he was there maybe one day of small arms, everything else was just regular patrols. IED's were big, but even those are getting less and less
on our troops. FYI we were at Camp Victory Bahgdad, so its not like we were in the south or north for that matter.
Are you in the military or a contractor? Regardless, thanks for your work.

How does the majority of the Iraqi public react to Americans?



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#24 : December 01, 2007, 02:13:01 PM

ADW, I'm far from right wing...if anything, I lean more towards libertarian views.   As to the bandaid analogy, I did say "both".  As for it being "correct" it is correct for YOUR opinion.  As I've said in this whole thread, Murtha said the surge was working AND that the Iraqi govt. is dysfunctional.  That's pretty balanced of him.  I've pointed out that it's fair that his "killing in cold blood" comments were taken out of context by many.  A right winger would not admit that.

Check out the tables below.  I said the majority of the media and agree with you, most of them are out to lunch.  I'll agree that the FNC is biased with it's opinion shows at night.  The research also shows that the majority of the mainstream media are out of touch.  I posted the tables for brevity - the article says a lot.

More broadly, my own hope is that the public wakes up and starts putting more pressure on the politicians through voting, emails, and calls to their offices.  What's the voting percentage for people that can vote - 30% max?









http://www.journalism.org/node/8197

dr3z

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#25 : December 01, 2007, 04:20:08 PM

Okay as a soldier here is my view and again its only mine.
Why when nothing happens (or something good) is it not reported?

Here is what im trying to say:

Start of the war: 20 GI's killed in a road side bomb, but 2 are killed earlier in the morning (they only report on the 20, 2 is a waste of time).

Middle of the war: 25 GI's killed this month which brings our totals to XYZ

Now that there are less deaths: 2 is news now and when its a quiet day or something good happens like the opeining of a girls school in Mosul, its not reported.
They never give out kills this month only the totals. It honestly pissed me off.....

But thats just me.

samsdad

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#26 : December 05, 2007, 10:44:43 PM

to those asking if things are better now....yeah they are...but we only had one way to go for awhile there....

To those in the military or loved ones in the military.....I pray you come home safe and thank you.


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#27 : December 06, 2007, 06:59:35 PM

Okay as a soldier here is my view and again its only mine.
Why when nothing happens (or something good) is it not reported?

Here is what im trying to say:

Start of the war: 20 GI's killed in a road side bomb, but 2 are killed earlier in the morning (they only report on the 20, 2 is a waste of time).

Middle of the war: 25 GI's killed this month which brings our totals to XYZ

Now that there are less deaths: 2 is news now and when its a quiet day or something good happens like the opeining of a girls school in Mosul, its not reported.
They never give out kills this month only the totals. It honestly pissed me off.....

But thats just me.



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