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Something to ponder.... IE, gruden...

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boredomkills01:

--- Quote from: Boid Fink on November 22, 2006, 01:27:05 AM ---If Gruden gets the team to .500 with little added talent, and a few key signings, then he keeps his job. 

If he blows the cap, and the Bucs win 9-10 games, he keeps his job.

Gruden stays.

Unless he drafts, blows the cap, and the Bucs are still a sub .500 squad.  Then and only then, will he lose his job.  You freaking haters are killing me.

Open your minds and your eyes.  They are not working with a diamond farm here...they are working with glass.

--- End quote ---

As i said...

If we fail to make the playoffs next year, he will be treading on thin ice IMO, But he will definitely keep his job...

The following year will be the Deciding factor in that case....

boredomkills01:
First of All gruden has a Contract till 2008....

i have a ? for all the gruden bashers.... If gruden has two winning seasons here, back to back, Playoffs but no Superbowl.... will you still want him gone??

most people who bash gruden say that he "only won with Dungy's team"... and are still upset about the dungy firing...

so If your answer is YES I still want Gruden out, IMO you are Kinda contradicting yourself, Because to me that has a strong similarity to the Dungy Firing....?

(I am keeping my feelings on the topic To myself so as to keep the thread "user friendly" No childish banter in this thread please!)

DanTurksGhost:

--- Quote from: boredomkills01 on November 21, 2006, 02:17:31 PM ---No childish banter in this thread please!

--- End quote ---

Good luck with that.

umguy1999:
My point is not Gruden won with Dungys team its Gruden won with a real GM. Now that Gruden calls all the shots and Allen just crunches the numbers we have had some bad football teams, worse than even the Dilfer years. Gruden ONLY Had success with a real GM. or an highly inolved owner such as AL Davis.
I would be all for keeping Gruden if he had a real GM, I think Gruden is a horrible personell guy and his record proves that. He is a good motivator for young players who buy into it, but Vets see through it after a while.

mjs020294:

--- Quote from: UMguy1999 on November 21, 2006, 02:25:08 PM ---My point is not Gruden won with Dungys team its Gruden won with a real GM. Now that Gruden calls all the shots and Allen just crunches the numbers we have had some bad football teams, worse than even the Dilfer years. Gruden ONLY Had success with a real GM. or an highly inolved owner such as AL Davis.
I would be all for keeping Gruden if he had a real GM, I think Gruden is a horrible personell guy and his record proves that. He is a good motivator for young players who buy into it, but Vets see through it after a while.



--- End quote ---

You mean a real GM that spends 75% of the cap on D players and signs them all to contracts escalating in the same year.  The sort of GM that trades away multiple high draft picks, in deals that go pear shape.  The sort of GM that over rules the coach on draft day and takes a player like Marquis Cooper instead of Brian Westbrook....…mind you if we had taken Domanik Davis instead of Simms Gruden wouldn’t have needed Westbrook.    [banghead]

Rich did a good job in his time in Tampa, but he left a trail of destruction in his wake.

DeadmenTNT:

--- Quote from: UMguy1999 on November 21, 2006, 02:25:08 PM ---I would be all for keeping Gruden if he had a real GM, I think Gruden is a horrible personell guy and his record proves that. He is a good motivator for young players who buy into it, but Vets see through it after a while.



--- End quote ---

I am not quite sure how the two deficiencies you point out are connected. Deficiency 1 - Gruden is a bad personnel guy. Deficiency 2 - Gruden can't motivate vets. Yet your conclusion is that you would keep Gruden. Seems to me that a coach with deficiency #2 will never be consistently successful. You can't keep turning over your roster every two years. So why would you keep him?

umguy1999:
I am talking about a GM who brought us a Super Bowl,  I am saying there is evidance that Gruden does better when he is not the one calling all the shots, than when he is.

I think a Gruden/McCay were great. Gruden/Davis were great. Gruden/Allen is no differant than Gruden on his own.

naplesbuc:
Gruden/McKay was a nightmare.  The last thing you want is a GM/HC relationship that is terrible.  They coexisted for one season and McKay was extremely reluctant to bring in the players Gruden wanted which were instrumental in bringing the Lombardi to Tampa.

acacius:
The 2004 offseason sucked, to be certain.  But I really feel like Allen has done an excellent job outside of that year's poor free agency pickups.  Maybe he's only done better due to cap constraints or maybe he learned a lesson that offseason.  I dunno.  But overall, I'm quite happy having him as a GM right now, quite regardless of Gruden, McKay or anyone else.

BucsGuru:
Great post.  I have said that if Gruden keeps us competitive THIS season, he earns the right to come back next season.  But, if we go out and play poorly the rest of this year, regardless of strength of schedule, injuries, etc, then I think we should consider making a change before next season. 
To answer your question though, I think we need to go deep in the playoffs and make a serious run in the next two years in order for Jon to retain his job.  We held Dungy to that standard, we need to hold Gruden to it as well.  He will have cap heaven this off season to make player trades, a great draft, and many returning youth that look promising.  Honestly, how many chances does anyone get to produce a winning team?  How many excuses are we going to keep making?  I cannot understand the logic behind that at all.  You just don't go out and spend the money we did on a coach like Jon Gruden and put up with losing seasons forever do you? 

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