Bigger Rivalry in the 90's? Help settle an argument

[rayfsc07]

I posted on a Gators board, and so far I have 3 responses and 3 GEORGIA.  I'll keep you informed. 

"1. UGA
2a. UT
2b. FSU"

"GEORGIA!!!! Always will be!"

"1 GEORGIA
2 TENNESSEE
3 LSU
4 F$U"

Question posed was "Who do you consider our Biggest Rival to be?"

[zed]

From my understanding, Florida's real rival is Florida State.  That's why they usually reserve their last game for each other.

[rayfsc07]

The question is wrong if you are trying to settle our argument. 

The discussion was NEVER biggest rivalry in the 90's

It was WHO IS FLORIDA's BIGGEST RIVAL.  Tat is what I was discussing, not the 90's.

It is and always will be UGA.

Figures you would try and skew it.

At any rate, asking a board of mostly non-gator fans is not going to give you an accurate answer.  Post a poll on a gator site and see what you get. 

[rayfsc07]

national significance means NOTHING as far as a RIVALRY GOES.

I'm not getting in the middle of this UGA/FSU mess because I don't know the answer but THAT statement is incorrect. The FSU/Miami rivalry heated up because of the national significance of the games ..... USC/Notre Dame's rivalry blossomed because of the national significance. National implications obviously aren't in most rivalries but some are there BECAUSE of the national significance.

That is true.  But "blossoming" and "heating up" are completely different than your main rival changing.  That is a completely different argument as well.  No doubt a rivalry can become more intense due to rankings. 

But UGA-UF was a bitter rivalry even before UF became good.  If both teams were 1-5 next year when they met it woudl still be an important rivalry game for each school. 

Which is my whole point.  The FSU-UF game became big nationally and became a bigger rivalry than it was when both teams became good, but in terms of just UF, the UGA game is always considered by most as the biggest rivalry game (and my poll amongst just Gators proves that). 

I think teams can become rivals when both are good, but a true rivalry is huge no matter what the records are.  The FSU-UF game is big to UF fans no doubt, but UGA has long been considered the biggest rival. 

I think in some ways people are arguing different things.  The FSU-UF rivalry was huge in the 90's from a National perspective because generally both teams were highly ranked.  But outside of that the UGA game is most important to fans of those schools, which is what makes a rivalry game a rivalry.  I think rivalries can be created and grow based on several contests between highly ranked teams, but that doesn't change the fact that your biggest rivals are your biggest rivals.

Auburn - Bama.  That's the rivalry.  If Auburn sucks the next 10 years and Bama and LSU (or UT) go toe to toe highly ranked is that going to change Bam's biggest rival to LSU (or UT)?  I think not.  Now from a national perspective that LSU-BAMA game may become more important those years but to Bama fan Auburn is still the biggest rival.

Michigan - OSU.  If Michigan sucks the next 10 years and Wisconsin steps up is that going to change Michigan-OSU as the biggest rivalry to OSU fan?  Of course not.

Same goes for UF.  UGA is always going to be the biggest rivalry game for UF regardless of a decade where FSU was more significant nationally.  Yes, the FSU rivalry grew some in the eyes of the fans, but fact remains UGA is still the biggest rival.

[John Galt?]

national significance means NOTHING as far as a RIVALRY GOES.

I'm not getting in the middle of this UGA/FSU mess because I don't know the answer but THAT statement is incorrect. The FSU/Miami rivalry heated up because of the national significance of the games ..... USC/Notre Dame's rivalry blossomed because of the national significance. National implications obviously aren't in most rivalries but some are there BECAUSE of the national significance.

Disagree.  National exposure may make the rivalry more famous, but not more heated.  Army/Navy is still a bitter rivalry even though niether team has been relevant for some time.  Kansas/Ok was a big game this year but it didn't have nearly the passion of any Ok/Nebraska game.

To be a rivalry there has to be a history. And to be a great rivalry, there has to be pictures of guys in leather helmets.

[rayfsc07]

Let me ask you this BIGGS, when Spurrier signed on in 1990 what was his TOP PRIORITY?

[BucsBullsBolts]

national significance means NOTHING as far as a RIVALRY GOES.

I'm not getting in the middle of this UGA/FSU mess because I don't know the answer but THAT statement is incorrect. The FSU/Miami rivalry heated up because of the national significance of the games ..... USC/Notre Dame's rivalry blossomed because of the national significance. National implications obviously aren't in most rivalries but some are there BECAUSE of the national significance.

That is true.  But "blossoming" and "heating up" are completely different than your main rival changing.  That is a completely different argument as well.  No doubt a rivalry can become more intense due to rankings. 

But UGA-UF was a bitter rivalry even before UF became good.  If both teams were 1-5 next year when they met it woudl still be an important rivalry game for each school. 

Which is my whole point.  The FSU-UF game became big nationally and became a bigger rivalry than it was when both teams became good, but in terms of just UF, the UGA game is always considered by most as the biggest rivalry game (and my poll amongst just Gators proves that). 

I think teams can become rivals when both are good, but a true rivalry is huge no matter what the records are.  The FSU-UF game is big to UF fans no doubt, but UGA has long been considered the biggest rival. 

I think in some ways people are arguing different things.  The FSU-UF rivalry was huge in the 90's from a National perspective because generally both teams were highly ranked.  But outside of that the UGA game is most important to fans of those schools, which is what makes a rivalry game a rivalry.  I think rivalries can be created and grow based on several contests between highly ranked teams, but that doesn't change the fact that your biggest rivals are your biggest rivals.

Auburn - Bama.  That's the rivalry.  If Auburn sucks the next 10 years and Bama and LSU (or UT) go toe to toe highly ranked is that going to change Bam's biggest rival to LSU (or UT)?  I think not.  Now from a national perspective that LSU-BAMA game may become more important those years but to Bama fan Auburn is still the biggest rival.

Michigan - OSU.  If Michigan sucks the next 10 years and Wisconsin steps up is that going to change Michigan-OSU as the biggest rivalry to OSU fan?  Of course not.

Same goes for UF.  UGA is always going to be the biggest rivalry game for UF regardless of a decade where FSU was more significant nationally.  Yes, the FSU rivalry grew some in the eyes of the fans, but fact remains UGA is still the biggest rival.

Ray, I was just commenting on your statement about national significance having NOTHING to do with A rivalry. It doesn't have to but it CAN heat it up even more than it already was .... You don't think the UM/FSU rivalry got more intense with the NC's that the Hurricanes knocked FSU out of?

I was not commenting on the UF/Whoever rivalry ...... I spun off ...... I was bad.

[rayfsc07]

I know, I agree with that.  What I was meaning was that a rivalry doesn't have to have national significance to be a great rivalry.  I do agree that it can heat one up, and it can make a rivalry grow.  But in a true rivalry rankings don't mean a whole lot.  I was more referring to UF-UGA rivalry where ranks don't matter.  Of course a rivalry can come out of rankings but UF-UGA have been going at it since 1915, where they are ranked is just icing on the cake as far as the rivalry is concerned.

[BucsBullsBolts]

national significance means NOTHING as far as a RIVALRY GOES.

I'm not getting in the middle of this UGA/FSU mess because I don't know the answer but THAT statement is incorrect. The FSU/Miami rivalry heated up because of the national significance of the games ..... USC/Notre Dame's rivalry blossomed because of the national significance. National implications obviously aren't in most rivalries but some are there BECAUSE of the national significance.

Disagree.  National exposure may make the rivalry more famous, but not more heated.  Army/Navy is still a bitter rivalry even though niether team has been relevant for some time.  Kansas/Ok was a big game this year but it didn't have nearly the passion of any Ok/Nebraska game.

To be a rivalry there has to be a history. And to be a great rivalry, there has to be pictures of guys in leather helmets.

I'm not old enough to have followed the FSU/UM rivalry since it's beginning in 1955 but I'd be hard pressed to believe that it didn't heat up significantly with all the games where national title implications were on the line .... Again, I;m not saying you HAVE to have those implications for a rivalry but you can't convince me that numerous games played with so much more on the line than just state bragging rights don't ratchet up the intensity some ...

[rayfsc07]

national significance means NOTHING as far as a RIVALRY GOES.

I'm not getting in the middle of this UGA/FSU mess because I don't know the answer but THAT statement is incorrect. The FSU/Miami rivalry heated up because of the national significance of the games ..... USC/Notre Dame's rivalry blossomed because of the national significance. National implications obviously aren't in most rivalries but some are there BECAUSE of the national significance.

Disagree.  National exposure may make the rivalry more famous, but not more heated.  Army/Navy is still a bitter rivalry even though niether team has been relevant for some time.  Kansas/Ok was a big game this year but it didn't have nearly the passion of any Ok/Nebraska game.

To be a rivalry there has to be a history. And to be a great rivalry, there has to be pictures of guys in leather helmets.

Great points. 

Also, UF has beaten UGA 15 of last 18.  Before that UGA won 15 of 20.  Doesn't make the rivalry any less great in the eyes of the fans.  To outsiders sure, other games may become more important from time to time.  But to old school UF fans UGA is and always will be Priority #1.  Just ask Spurrier. 

[BucsBullsBolts]

I know, I agree with that.  What I was meaning was that a rivalry doesn't have to have national significance to be a great rivalry.  I do agree that it can heat one up, and it can make a rivalry grow. 

And that's really all I was saying. Your statement said it had NOTHING to do with a rivalry but I see that you were mainly refering to the UF stuff ....... I tangentized.

[rayfsc07]

national significance means NOTHING as far as a RIVALRY GOES.

I'm not getting in the middle of this UGA/FSU mess because I don't know the answer but THAT statement is incorrect. The FSU/Miami rivalry heated up because of the national significance of the games ..... USC/Notre Dame's rivalry blossomed because of the national significance. National implications obviously aren't in most rivalries but some are there BECAUSE of the national significance.

Disagree.  National exposure may make the rivalry more famous, but not more heated.  Army/Navy is still a bitter rivalry even though niether team has been relevant for some time.  Kansas/Ok was a big game this year but it didn't have nearly the passion of any Ok/Nebraska game.

To be a rivalry there has to be a history. And to be a great rivalry, there has to be pictures of guys in leather helmets.

I'm not old enough to have followed the FSU/UM rivalry since it's beginning in 1955 but I'd be hard pressed to believe that it didn't heat up significantly with all the games where national title implications were on the line .... Again, I;m not saying you HAVE to have those implications for a rivalry but you can't convince me that numerous games played with so much more on the line than just state bragging rights don't ratchet up the intensity some ...

Again, I do think rivalries can heat up when more is on the line.  But whether the intensity goes up a notch or 2 and who is your biggest rival are two different animals. 

To me, the true test of a rivalry is what goes down when both teams suck.  IMO, the UGA-UF game could happen when both teams don't win a game and it would still be a bitter feud amongst fans.  IF FSU and UF both sucked it would be important to win, but I don't think it would be as significant as beating the puppies.  Then again, UGA-UF started over 40 years before FSU-UF.  UF fans HATED UGA long before the FSU game ever became important.  You are talking about a 75 year head start with regards to the UF-UGA game being a bitter, bitter rivalry and when the FSU-UF game took on any national significance.  Way too much history there to just throw out the window because of one decade where UF dominated UGA and FSU-UF played some highly rated contests.  You have to remember also, that had UF not beaten UGA all those years in the 90's the FSU game would not have been as important nationally anyway.  So yeah, by the time the FSU game came around it was a HUGE game, but only after taking care of teh puppies.

[rayfsc07]

I know, I agree with that.  What I was meaning was that a rivalry doesn't have to have national significance to be a great rivalry.  I do agree that it can heat one up, and it can make a rivalry grow. 

And that's really all I was saying. Your statement said it had NOTHING to do with a rivalry but I see that you were mainly refering to the UF stuff ....... I tangentized.

Well, yeah. 

I guess a better way to put it would be this:

If you already have an established rivalry it really doesn't mean anything where they are ranked.  It is going to be a huge game no matter what.  The magnitude may increase with rankings, but the rivalry is still there regardless.

Now new rivals can form out of many years of highly ranked contests, but I don't think they replace historic rivals in terms of major rivalries.  Nationally they take on extra significance of course.

If UGA sucked the next 15 years and Kentucky stepped up and was highly ranked every year I wouldn't go putting Kentucky ahead of UGA as a bigger rival.  Too much history there.  And UK-UF have played the most of any Gator game outside of UGA.

[SnookAU]

You are talking 3 years.  And again, national significance means NOTHING as far as a RIVALRY GOES.  UGA has long been UF's biggest rival.  The FSU series became important in the 90's because FSU was ranked highly and UF was as well, but to a GATOR FAN the UGA game will always be the biggest rivalry game. 

You are an FSU/Auburn fan.  I don't see how any FSU fan, Auburn fan, or really any fan of anyone other than UF can comment on WHO UF's BIGGEST RIVAL is. 

It's like Matt said, Auburn will ALWAYS BE BAMA's biggest rival.  It doesn't matter if Bama beats them 20 years in a row it is always the biggest rivalry game.  There may be years where Bama plays LSU and it is more important nationally, but Auburn-Bama will always be the most significant game to BAMA fans. 

93/96/99 is a pretty good slice of the 90's.  UF-FSU was each school's biggest rival.  Sorry that you disagree but its the truth.  UGA was a joke in the 90's... and before Richt.   You're lying to yourself that you were satisfied MORE with beating UGA in 93/96/99 than you were with facing FSU.  Give me a break... I know you hate FSU but cmon, Ray...

I live in Georgia and most UGA fans I know would consider Auburn a bigger rival than UF...

[SnookAU]

And let's keep in mind, this is a thread about who was UF's biggest rival in the 90's... NOT NOW.