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keeponbucn

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#30 : November 23, 2006, 09:36:34 PM

Other franchises have displayed far more patience with less hardware in the case.

Detroit fans and Bucs fans are famous for running off every single young QB with potential becuase of the lack of patience. It is a vicious cycle in that if you are not patient with a young QB you will end up switching to another young QB and continue to lose. We as Bucs fans know this very well from the past and yet some Bucs fans forget about the lessons of the past. And Lions fans have it worse as they have no Lomardi they can point too!


I agree. Patience is an awful word to some on here.

alldaway

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#31 : November 23, 2006, 09:39:50 PM

I would be really sad to see Simms and Gradkowski succeed elsewhere.    :'( :'( :'(

If a new coaching staff comes in it depends on the coach if either or both stay.  If a win now type coach comes in they will stay.  If a new coach wants to put his stamp on the team then the Bucs draft a QB in the first round.

But if Martz for example is destined to come here then Simms and Gradkowski will be here most likely. 

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#32 : November 23, 2006, 09:42:03 PM

Next week we are playing the team we should model our franchise after. The Glazers need to = the Rooney's.

Itchalot

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#33 : November 23, 2006, 09:42:33 PM

I started this thread and you'll see I never advocated firing Gruden. My point was the rebuilding process is only getting started and somehow Gruden is supposed to turn it around by next year? That's a tall order.

If Gruden had an opportunity to get out and the Glazers could get some draft picks or $$ it could be a win-win.

You just don't fire a coach so fresh off a Lombardi. Other franchises have displayed far more patience with less hardware in the case.
You just don't trade a coach to another team like you do a player. Gruden has to want to go, or he has to be fired.  Gruden has stated in no uncertain terms that he doesn't want to go anywhere.  That the Glazers will have to be the one to fire him.  I take him at his word on that.  I know he is sometimes full of crap, but I don't think he was lying about the stuff he said about this being the ultimate job for him.

There will be no Gruden trade.  Take that to the bank.


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#34 : November 23, 2006, 09:46:36 PM

I started this thread and you'll see I never advocated firing Gruden. My point was the rebuilding process is only getting started and somehow Gruden is supposed to turn it around by next year? That's a tall order.

If Gruden had an opportunity to get out and the Glazers could get some draft picks or $$ it could be a win-win.

You just don't fire a coach so fresh off a Lombardi. Other franchises have displayed far more patience with less hardware in the case.
You just don't trade a coach to another team like you do a player. Gruden has to want to go, or he has to be fired.  Gruden has stated in no uncertain terms that he doesn't want to go anywhere.  That the Glazers will have to be the one to fire him.  I take him at his word on that.  I know he is sometimes full of crap, but I don't think he was lying about the stuff he said about this being the ultimate job for him.

There will be no Gruden trade.  Take that to the bank.

A coach would make a great politician. They may not understand the issues, but they get an A+ on telling people what they want to hear. I think Gruden has a lot going for him in Tampa; both personally and professionally. As a son of a military man; I know what it's like to uproot yourself and your family all the time. It became very stale very quickly, and my father actually regretted that lifestyle a few times. But, to put full faith in Gruden's words is just very questionable for me; because he would never say anything different to the public. I wouldn't put 100% faith in what any coach says to the public.

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How the heck did I get old enough to have a kid in college?

naplesbuc

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#35 : November 23, 2006, 09:47:15 PM

Itch, the Glazers need to fish or cut bait.  If they want Gruden to be their coach then he needs to know he has time to turn this around.  Otherwise if he's in a one season or bust position he and Allen will break the bank to try to do a rapid fire turnaround via FA and this could kill the franchise for another 3-4 years if it fails.

 

flyinbuc

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#36 : November 23, 2006, 09:54:10 PM

Pleese not Martz/ The rest of the year is going to be painful. Face it . We are playing with third and fourth teamers/ as long as the season is in the crapper the less we win the better. There is no culture of losing hell we did win as recently as last year and the team will be radically different next year

umguy1999

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#37 : November 23, 2006, 09:59:40 PM

The problem with firing Gruden as far as the Glazers go are they would have no GM, they couldn't let Allen take over the draft or pick FA's and they whould have to put a lot of faith in a new coach and GM that they never met, unless they promote from within like make Kiffin HC and but then we don't know how good Kiffin is with personel.
I think they almost have to let Gruden/Allen handle next seasons cap money and the draft and see what they come up with, I just really hope Gruden doesn't blindly make Grad's a starter because I would hate to have a good team with a bad QB.

mjs020294

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#38 : November 23, 2006, 10:02:11 PM

The problem with firing Gruden as far as the Glazers go are they would have no GM, they couldn't let Allen take over the draft or pick FA's and they whould have to put a lot of faith in a new coach and GM that they never met, unless they promote from within like make Kiffin HC and but then we don't know how good Kiffin is with personel.
I think they almost have to let Gruden/Allen handle next seasons cap money and the draft and see what they come up with, I just really hope Gruden doesn't blindly make Grad's a starter because I would hate to have a good team with a bad QB.

Don't underestimate Bruce Allen, he can survive without JG.  Allen was a coach himself and he is a great GM.  Just because he has a great working relationship with Gruden doesn't mean he couldn't get the job done with another coach.


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#39 : November 23, 2006, 10:11:02 PM

Gruden is not going to be fired this year. After next year, if there is no improvement, then maybe. But they arn't going to throw him over until after next year.

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#40 : November 23, 2006, 10:21:09 PM

The problem with firing Gruden as far as the Glazers go are they would have no GM, they couldn't let Allen take over the draft or pick FA's and they whould have to put a lot of faith in a new coach and GM that they never met, unless they promote from within like make Kiffin HC and but then we don't know how good Kiffin is with personel.
I think they almost have to let Gruden/Allen handle next seasons cap money and the draft and see what they come up with, I just really hope Gruden doesn't blindly make Grad's a starter because I would hate to have a good team with a bad QB.

Don't underestimate Bruce Allen, he can survive without JG. Allen was a coach himself and he is a great GM. Just because he has a great working relationship with Gruden doesn't mean he couldn't get the job done with another coach.
   You mean the Glazers didn't hire Allen because he was with Gruden & Gruden specifically requested him?

Itchalot

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#41 : November 23, 2006, 10:38:52 PM

Itch, the Glazers need to fish or cut bait. If they want Gruden to be their coach then he needs to know he has time to turn this around. Otherwise if he's in a one season or bust position he and Allen will break the bank to try to do a rapid fire turnaround via FA and this could kill the franchise for another 3-4 years if it fails.

 
I agree with you here, which is why I started the "Extend Gruden" thread after the last loss and the last round of threads to get rid of Gruden.  Somebody mentioned that the Bucs owners need to act like the owners of our upcoming opponent the Steelers.  I agree.

What would Rooney do? He would extend Gruden like he did Cowher when he went 6-10.

It has been pointed out that Gruden's deal goes until 2008.  But that really is neither here nor there. As far as reality is concerned that 2008 year means nothing except for a nice going away present. If they extend his contract another year thats basically a signal that Gruden has a two year window rather than a one year window.


mjs020294

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#42 : November 23, 2006, 10:45:35 PM

The problem with firing Gruden as far as the Glazers go are they would have no GM, they couldn't let Allen take over the draft or pick FA's and they whould have to put a lot of faith in a new coach and GM that they never met, unless they promote from within like make Kiffin HC and but then we don't know how good Kiffin is with personel.
I think they almost have to let Gruden/Allen handle next seasons cap money and the draft and see what they come up with, I just really hope Gruden doesn't blindly make Grad's a starter because I would hate to have a good team with a bad QB.

Don't underestimate Bruce Allen, he can survive without JG. Allen was a coach himself and he is a great GM. Just because he has a great working relationship with Gruden doesn't mean he couldn't get the job done with another coach.
   You mean the Glazers didn't hire Allen because he was with Gruden & Gruden specifically requested him?

The Glazers hired the best GM for the job.  The previous GM walked out and they needed a new GM.  They don't exactly grow on trees, and they picked up a guy widely regarded one of the best in the business.


Itchalot

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#43 : November 23, 2006, 11:22:56 PM

Cowher had two losing seasons in a row after his 6-10 year and no Superbowl when Rooney gave him a new deal.  He could see that regardless of the record that Cowher was the right guy to coach the Steelers, despite the fact that many Steelers fans at the time thought he had run his course.  Gruden won the division last year and already has a Superbowl under his belt. 


BucsGuru

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#44 : November 23, 2006, 11:11:04 PM

Cowher has NEVER had three losing seasons out of five in Steel town.  He also been to the SB twice and won one.  He also has been to the AFC Champ game at least a half dozen times.  Gruden doesn't even remotely come close to being mentioned with the likes of Bill Cowher.
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