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« #45 : October 08, 2006, 07:59:49 PM »

THe Glazers sold the farm to get us that SB, they knew they were shot after it.  They tried to repeat the next  year and shot the cap.  I don't know what they were thinking the year after that, but last year we achieved way more than  we shouold have.  I gues some people think its easy to field a dominant on both sides type team, but it isn't.  Most of the Gruden bashing is just peeps who loved tony anyway.  And now there are some new Karen-come-lately's that were all about Chris. 

And Chris is leaving now, I am 100% sure on that.

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« #46 : October 08, 2006, 08:05:38 PM »

Gruden's in charge of what he puts on the field. He's in charge of the 'finished' product. Thus, he shoulders a lot of the blame. But, it's not just him. When you are a failing franchise, which I consider the Bucs to be right now, you look at everyone. You don't point fingers to just one person. There might be people in the organization who shoulder more of the blame than others, but no one's hands are clean. When a team fails, 9 times out of 10, it's the head coach who takes the fall. It's natural. It's normal. It may not be right, and that's your opinion to believe otherwise, but it's usually the coach who takes the fall for a poor performance. I'm sure Gruden has thick skin. I'm sure Gruden knows that, as a head coach, what is put on the field is his responsibility.

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« #47 : October 08, 2006, 08:05:58 PM »

THe Glazers sold the farm to get us that SB, they knew they were shot after it. They tried to repeat the next year and shot the cap. I don't know what they were thinking the year after that, but last year we achieved way more than we shouold have. I gues some people think its easy to field a dominant on both sides type team, but it isn't. Most of the Gruden bashing is just peeps who loved tony anyway. And now there are some new Karen-come-lately's that were all about Chris.

And Chris is leaving now, I am 100% sure on that.
I haven't come lately to anything! Good on both sides? See Chicago & (choke) Philly.

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« #48 : October 08, 2006, 08:13:21 PM »

Not when it's building a team on offense an starting to infuse youth on defense with guys like Ruud White Pearson Allen Winborn and others who are finally get rotation time. You switch when the progress stops and  this team has made progress this year and made a hell of alot last year.

You propose we change Gruden because we are having some woes yet we all knew they were coming when we mortgaged the team for a SB and still Gruden has kept it for the most part competitive. Do you see Bmore replacing Billick thorugh all the crappy years or Pitt canning Cowher when they were doing bad.

And then you propose Kiffen whose side of the ball is having the most problems with the most basic of fundamentals (although I love kiff). And then propose Barry who i would actually agree with. Then you come out of left field with Petrino with his entire three years of experience in the Big Least who when they were highly ranked last year with a great offense got the crap beat out of em by Leavitt's Bulls. Next you'll tell me he is a better offensive mind than grudne with this 3 years experience against some pretty lame college talent in the big East.


This off-season, everyone here thought this team was going further into the playoffs, now because they're 0-4, the excuse is they are rebuilding.  Seems like a cop-out to me not to blame the coaching staff.  Petrino has to start somewhere, you're only thing against him is lack of NFL experience.  He torched the Hurricanes for 34 points this year.  He's doing what he is paid to do.  
How many years does Gruden get?  Their offensive ranking has gone down every year, and the defensive needs have been ignored, except for Ruud, and maybe Z-man, too early to tell on him.  
We're not going to agree, which is fine, I just think at some point you have to stop beating the dead horse and buy a new one.  

Cowher nor Billick ever had two 0-4 starts in 3 years.  


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« #49 : October 08, 2006, 08:36:53 PM »

I back Coach Gruden and so do Buccaneer fans who have brains and a will to win.
Come on, Kiffen as a HC is just plain stupid. Yeah, let's start over but for an old defense! THAT'S the ticket!
Did I mention he doesn't WANT to be a HC and Jon Gruden is here for a reason? Super Bowl? Getting matches on offense?
Leadership? Ringing a bell?
Maybe being in DC is a problem for you, I don't know, but fans here sure as HELL aren't stupid enough to be calling for Gruden/Allen to be fired........damn.

We are all here because we are NOT all there.....
As always, GO BUCS!!!

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« #50 : October 08, 2006, 08:46:15 PM »

JG, you wouldn't know it by some of the 'fans' I've heard calling into the radio shows. It's an 'on the fence' issue with me. I think Gruden is a good coach. I think he can relate to his players. On the other hand, I don't think a title should exempt him from the inevitable outcome that faces many coaches whose clubs aren't succeeding. Bottom line; they won't do anything mid-season. Nothing should ever happen mid-season; although I know it does happen many times. People who call for Gruden's firing in Week 4, 6, 12, etc.; I don't understand their rants. After the season; it's a new ballgame. Gruden has always appeared, to me, to be a man who will bow out himself before allowing someone to throw his own towel into the ring. Right now, it's only four games into the season. They're four losses, but there's opportunity there for several players. You don't throw out the coach (yet), but I don't see a problem in questioning anything.

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« #51 : October 08, 2006, 08:49:20 PM »

I back Coach Gruden and so do Buccaneer fans who have brains and a will to win.
Come on, Kiffen as a HC is just plain stupid. Yeah, let's start over but for an old defense! THAT'S the ticket!
Did I mention he doesn't WANT to be a HC and Jon Gruden is here for a reason? Super Bowl? Getting matches on offense?
Leadership? Ringing a bell?
Maybe being in DC is a problem for you, I don't know, but fans here sure as HELL aren't stupid enough to be calling for Gruden/Allen to be fired........damn.


It doesn't matter what fans think, only what the Glazers think.  And the Glazers like winners.  Otherwise, they would have purchased a smaller EPL team, not one of the best in Man U.  Bucs are a losing team right now, and ownership will not put up with it for long.  
Again, Super Bowl was 5 years ago, have to let it go at some point.  His "matches" on offense is resulting in 31st offense in the league.  And just because Kiffin turned down the 49er job, doesn't mean he'll turn down a chance to coach the Bucs.  And I never suggested Allen be fired.  


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« #52 : October 08, 2006, 08:50:07 PM »


This off-season, everyone here thought this team was going further into the playoffs, now because they're 0-4, the excuse is they are rebuilding.  Seems like a cop-out to me not to blame the coaching staff.  Petrino has to start somewhere, you're only thing against him is lack of NFL experience.  He torched the Hurricanes for 34 points this year.  He's doing what he is paid to do.  
How many years does Gruden get?  Their offensive ranking has gone down every year, and the defensive needs have been ignored, except for Ruud, and maybe Z-man, too early to tell on him.  
We're not going to agree, which is fine, I just think at some point you have to stop beating the dead horse and buy a new one.  

Cowher nor Billick ever had two 0-4 starts in 3 years.  


There were many on here thinking we would be lucky to go 8-8 with a brutal schedule and the rest of the division upgrading all their holes. Yet the Bucs were having to stay put cause they had no cap space even with the elevated cap this year. They had enough not to have to make tough decisions on who they had to cut. Not to mention many thought the Panthers, Steelers and others would be much better off than they are right now.

And there is no cop out-- I have said this staff has to bear the blame in other threads, but with all the surrounding circumstances it sure isn't time to replace them and overhaul the entire organizational offices and gameplans when they are obviously building with 7- 1st year starters last year and now 5 1st years starters this year. Face it we played a soft schedule and overachieved last year. I doubt gruden planned for the defensive and prior QB meltdowns. Sure he bears some of the blame for it, but its not like overnight he became a bad head coach.

As for Petrino -- with only 3 years in the Big least you think he has the pedigree to be better than Gruden-- thats laughable. He beat Miami-- really -- next you'll tell me Miami is a good team. See how you left out when his team was ranked the highest they ever have been in decades and they get beat up pretty good by leavitt's Bulls.

As for the offense has gone down every year--- no it hasn't it went up in 03 to top 10 yet 7-9  record. Last year was one of their worst along with the 02 season yet they won the division and a SB. Remember it is a team sport and it has the youngest offense in the league and the youngest line in the league for the past 2 years. Takes time to build. And you blame his offense but completely ignore the past 2 games his offense did enough to win and his defense and ST's were the big letdowns but yet you want Monte there whose guys aren't even being fundamental right now and they are probowl and high caliber vets for the most part.

when does 0-4 makes a season-- flawed argument on your part-- are you telling me Cowher and Billick never had rebuilds with losing years-- doesn't matter where you start it's how it is finished and if their is progress made-- Last two weeks i have seen progress by Grudens side of the ball. Obviously defense is the achilles heel right now. But hey lets give Kiff a free pass and promote him-- it's all gruden's fault.


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« #53 : October 08, 2006, 08:59:03 PM »

There were many on here thinking we would be lucky to go 8-8 with a brutal schedule and the rest of the division upgrading all their holes. Yet the Bucs were having to stay put cause they had no cap space even with the elevated cap this year. They had enough not to have to make tough decisions on who they had to cut. Not to mention many thought the Panthers, Steelers and others would be much better off than they are right now.

And there is no cop out-- I have said this staff has to bear the blame in other threads, but with all the surrounding circumstances it sure isn't time to replace them and overhaul the entire organizational offices and gameplans when they are obviously building with 7- 1st year starters last year and now 5 1st years starters this year. Face it we played a soft schedule and overachieved last year. I doubt gruden planned for the defensive and prior QB meltdowns. Sure he bears some of the blame for it, but its not like overnight he became a bad head coach.

As for Petrino -- with only 3 years in the Big least you think he has the pedigree to be better than Gruden-- thats laughable. He beat Miami-- really -- next you'll tell me Miami is a good team. See how you left out when his team was ranked the highest they ever have been in decades and they get beat up pretty good by leavitt's Bulls.

As for the offense has gone down every year--- no it hasn't it went up in 03 to top 10 yet 7-9  record. Last year was one of their worst along with the 02 season yet they won the division and a SB. Remember it is a team sport and it has the youngest offense in the league and the youngest line in the league for the past 2 years. Takes time to build. And you blame his offense but completely ignore the past 2 games his offense did enough to win and his defense and ST's were the big letdowns but yet you want Monte there whose guys aren't even being fundamental right now and they are probowl and high caliber vets for the most part.

when does 0-4 makes a season-- flawed argument on your part-- are you telling me Cowher and Billick never had rebuilds with losing years-- doesn't matter where you start it's how it is finished and if their is progress made-- Last two weeks i have seen progress by Grudens side of the ball. Obviously defense is the achilles heel right now. But hey lets give Kiff a free pass and promote him-- it's all gruden's fault.


So Petrino would be a bad OC because his team lost 1 game?  That makes him a worse OC than Gruden?  Yeah, Gruden's offense was ranked a great 16th in '03.  What explains the drop to 22nd in '04, 23rd in '05, and currently 31st?  Must be Kiffin, right? 
You have no problem blaming Kiffin for the D, but can give every excuse for Gruden's O. 
You are right, progress should be made.  This team went from Super Bowl to 7-9, 5-11, 1-5 which you yourself just said was an overachievement, and now currently 0-4.  Where is the progress?  This team will realistically be 2-14 or 3-13.  I don't consider that progress. 
Billick's and Cowher's rebuilding years lasted only 1 poor season.  Not 3 in 4 years.


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« #54 : October 08, 2006, 09:29:36 PM »

What makes you think a 3 year OC in the Big East and has no NFL experience is better than Gruden who last I checked is one of a few HC's with a winning NFL record, 4 division titles, conference championship and a SB champ. I dont know why I even argue it with you. Lets risk all that on  a 3rd year OC that crumbles in big games.

every excuse for Gruden's O. The guy has 12 new offensive starters in in the past 20 games and is 11-9 with them-- somehow you think he has been awful and needs to be replaced when there are alot more deficinecies then just his offense.

Do you disagree that this offense has done enough and his playcalling was enough to win the last 2 games-- if so thats progress over the first two games of the season.

And Billick and Cowher had 2 lean years during the rebuild and neither had 7 1st  and 4 2nd round picks pissed away to get there. They were able to get talent.

You can dismiss it as Gruden is just a poor coach which his record says otherwise or realize as most smart football fans do that it is hard to win and rebuild with all youth, not many quality draft picks and no money to bring in quality FA's to seal the deal. then again you'ld like to replace him with a 3 year guy with no experience in this league.



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« #55 : October 09, 2006, 03:56:17 PM »

Anyone who doubts what Gruden was able to do with a brokedown team vs a very solid team yesterday ought not to call themselves football fans, for they don't know s***.

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« #56 : October 09, 2006, 03:57:07 PM »

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« #57 : October 09, 2006, 05:00:39 PM »

I don't think its fair for people t0 criticize those who are putting at least some of the blame on Gruden. He is the HC and OC. I live in north jersey 10 miles from NYC. This is Yankee country. You should see the papers since saturday night. Some want to drag Joe Torre through the streets and stone him. Did he play in the game? Did he swing a bat? Did he pitch the ball? No no and no. Its called accountability. We're 0-4 and people are pissed. Pissed at the players, the zebras and the coaches. That doesn't meen you are not a true fan. In my opinion you do not fire Gruden. But Gruden should begin now to work in some younger players on D and see what they have. This season is over. Let's take advantage of this oportunity to rebuild now...not next season. Offense looked great. Too bad if you minus out Joey the game most likely wouldn't have been as close as it was. That's another thing we need to work on. Joey won't last forever, maybe not even till 2007...

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« #58 : October 09, 2006, 05:05:58 PM »

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Monte is the D-man and Gru is the O-man.  I know Gru is also head coach and responsibility goes with that.  But I wouldn't swap Gru for any other coach in the league.


BTW - my kool-aid has a head on it when poured correctly and a deep malty aroma.  Goes great with chicken wings.


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« #59 : October 09, 2006, 05:06:03 PM »

I don't think its fair for people t0 criticize those who are putting at least some of the blame on Gruden. He is the HC and OC. I live in north jersey 10 miles from NYC. This is Yankee country. You should see the papers since saturday night. Some want to drag Joe Torre through the streets and stone him. Did he play in the game? Did he swing a bat? Did he pitch the ball? No no and no. Its called accountability. We're 0-4 and people are pissed. Pissed at the players, the zebras and the coaches. That doesn't meen you are not a true fan. In my opinion you do not fire Gruden. But Gruden should begin now to work in some younger players on D and see what they have. This season is over. Let's take advantage of this oportunity to rebuild now...not next season. Offense looked great. Too bad if you minus out Joey the game most likely wouldn't have been as close as it was. That's another thing we need to work on. Joey won't last forever, maybe not even till 2007...

Difference is Joe Torre has an all star, all pro team, while Grduen has 12 first year starters over the past 20 games. Was missing the luxury of having 6 #1 and 3#2 draft picks., and had zilch to spend without imploding the team and starting over. Torre has the pick of the litter every year. If Gruden had that each and every season I would be the first to fire him.

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