SHUT UP Already

[Samari28]

I am so tired of everyone coming here, especially these new rookies and trashing this team and ragging on Gruden.  Yes, he is part to blame but so is McKay, Dungy, Kiffen and more importantly THE PLAYERS!!!!  If you gate Gruden so much tell me who is better???  It does not take any manhood to criticize this team when it is down but it does when you stick by your team no matter what the record is.  I am not a Gruden lover but it is not all his fault.  Read the Insider Info as this whole message board has gone to Atlanta (lol).  If you all think you are so smart name one coach that is available that would be better than Gruden and why?  That is if you are man enough to do it.  I HATE this losing thing yet we would have not been in cap hell had it not been for Richie boy and if Dungy would have taken his head out of his butt we could have won two or three more Super Bowls when the defense was in its prime.  Funny thing is if the defense sucks it is somehow Gruden's fault yet Monte picks the players for the defense - hmmm.  Yes the offense is nothing to brag about but dang people.  I have had it with some of you new and old posters that all you do is whine and complain and have your fairy tale endings.  If no Gruden then who?

[dr3z]

"so is McKay, Dungy, Kiffen".....................................thats the funniest thing I have ever heard!! So your saying that these same people deserve the credit when we win as well? Next time the bucs win...................Dungy, and McKay had a hand in it. Great post!

[karen anderson]

Funny thing is if the defense sucks it is somehow Gruden's fault yet Monte picks the players for the defense - hmmm. Yes the offense is nothing to brag about but dang people. I have had it with some of you new and old posters that all you do is whine and complain and have your fairy tale endings. If no Gruden then who?

   

So when the defense won us a SB was that Monte's fault to? HC is responsbile for the team on the field, good or ill.

BTW, if not then who? Cam Cameron and Ron Rivera are my top 2. Tell me why not.

No, Monte doesn't always pick the players.  He lobbied  for Dwight Smith & Dexter  Jackson, but didn't get them.

[BuccoJD]

Funny thing is if the defense sucks it is somehow Gruden's fault yet Monte picks the players for the defense - hmmm. Yes the offense is nothing to brag about but dang people. I have had it with some of you new and old posters that all you do is whine and complain and have your fairy tale endings. If no Gruden then who?

So when the defense won us a SB was that Monte's fault to? HC is responsbile for the team on the field, good or ill.

BTW, if not then who? Cam Cameron and Ron Rivera are my top 2. Tell me why not.

Gruden and Kiffen are great coaches PERIOD...look at their past success when they have some talent. No one...not even the prized Bill Belicheck could win without any talent on his team (the Browns still sucked).

You Gruden bashers are freaking ridiculous. Have you not noticed how the salary cap has limited us these past few years.

[karen anderson]

Can't wait to hear the excuses next year after we spend $30 million & still suck!!

[karen anderson]

Can't wait to hear the excuses next year after we spend $30 million & still suck!!

Off the top of my head, the first few clubs out of the bag:

1. It takes time for guys to learn our system.
2. Just signing one or two guys isn't enough to fill all the holes we had.

  Exactly!  The D/O needs time to "jell".

[BuccoJD]

Gruden and Kiffen are great coaches PERIOD...look at their past success when they have some talent. No one...not even the prized Bill Belicheck could win without any talent on his team (the Browns still sucked).

You Gruden bashers are freaking ridiculous. Have you not noticed how the salary cap has limited us these past few years.

So whos the best coach in the league?
Ans

Holy crap, there's a salary cap? Gosh, I wish someone had mentioned that once, twice or whatever thousand odd times it has been brought up.

I like that our great coaches only can coach when they have elite talent. I keep asking, why do other teams with crap for offensive talent (SF, DET for example) do better than us? If our talent is that bad and 11 of 11 offensive players are here at Gruden's request and 7 of 11 defensive players are also his guys does that say he's doing a crappy job of picking his guys?

Gruden and Kiffen are great coaches PERIOD...look at their past success when they have some talent. No one...not even the prized Bill Belicheck could win without any talent on his team (the Browns still sucked).

You Gruden bashers are freaking ridiculous. Have you not noticed how the salary cap has limited us these past few years.

Holy crap, there's a salary cap? Gosh, I wish someone had mentioned that once, twice or whatever thousand odd times it has been brought up.

I like that our great coaches only can coach when they have elite talent. I keep asking, why do other teams with crap for offensive talent (SF, DET for example) do better than us? If our talent is that bad and 11 of 11 offensive players are here at Gruden's request and 7 of 11 defensive players are also his guys does that say he's doing a crappy job of picking his guys?

SF and DET sadly may have better offensive talent. Have you seen Frank Gore and Alex Smith this year...and DET isn't playing well against worse opponents than us.

But Gruden has been severly limited by the salary cap...do you really think the only player he wanted this year from FA was Jamie Winborn.

[BUCFAN4LIFE]

Gruden and Kiffen are great coaches PERIOD...look at their past success when they have some talent. No one...not even the prized Bill Belicheck could win without any talent on his team (the Browns still sucked).

You Gruden bashers are freaking ridiculous. Have you not noticed how the salary cap has limited us these past few years.

Holy crap, there's a salary cap? Gosh, I wish someone had mentioned that once, twice or whatever thousand odd times it has been brought up.

I like that our great coaches only can coach when they have elite talent. I keep asking, why do other teams with crap for offensive talent (SF, DET for example) do better than us? If our talent is that bad and 11 of 11 offensive players are here at Gruden's request and 7 of 11 defensive players are also his guys does that say he's doing a crappy job of picking his guys?

So have you seen San Fran do much  in the last 5 years-- one playoff appearance (Gruden has 2 and a SB)-- not to mention they had a rookie QB starting putting up worse numbers than Grads in Smith's first year 1TD 11INT's-- I watched Detroit get pounded today and they have the same record as us and worse over the past years. Did you forget Gruden did get a divison champ last season with a young offense.

Cameron and Rivera are both unproven guys-- Cameron never even had a winning season at Indiana as HC and Rivera a 2 year DC that walked into a treasure chest of talent is simply listening to Lovie -- that defense is Lovies-- and last I checked it was stocked with young talent after years of drafts --something of which Gruden hasn't had-- should we even make mention how bare the cupboard was with picks prior to his arrival-- name anyone other than Alstott or Dunn on offense that the previous regime picked up and amounted to anything. Should we mention two contracts alone that were uncuttable and took up a 3rd of the cap and a defense eating 75% of it. You propose in the middle of a rebuild that we actually bring in unproven coaches-- great thinking-- you still haven't named anyone better than Gruden that has proven themselves-- your tossing up hail marys of who knows what they are capable of.

[naplesbuc]

Cameron failed at the college level and you seriosuly want to hire him to be the Bucs next coach?   

[BucfaninDC]

Gruden and Kiffen are great coaches PERIOD...look at their past success when they have some talent. No one...not even the prized Bill Belicheck could win without any talent on his team (the Browns still sucked).

You Gruden bashers are freaking ridiculous. Have you not noticed how the salary cap has limited us these past few years.

I like that our great coaches only can coach when they have elite talent.

Jon Gruden = Phil Jackson

[BUCFAN4LIFE]

You propose in the middle of a rebuild that we actually bring in unproven coaches-- great thinking-- you still haven't named anyone better than Gruden that has proven themselves-- your tossing up hail marys of who knows what they are capable of.

Once more the Grudenista argument that no coach should ever be fired because you have to find a coach with proven skills. You do know most ocaches get replaced with guys that haven't been HC's, right? You realize that Cameron has built that SD offense into a machine right? That seems like a proven NFL guy- heck maybe we can just fire our OC and hire him to do that since he can get an offense going using unproven players, no-name OL and developing a young QB.

must not only be a Grudenista argument when Cameron interviewed with 2 teams after last season for HC'ing positions and was truned down by Houston and St Louis.

And for all that offensive prowess you speak of, he has 2 winning seasons as Chargers OC and 1 wild card playoff exit.

Last I checked Gruden has 4 division titles in the past 6 years-- took a rotten Oakland team and did well with them. And in Tampa he has been cap and draft strapped yet still managed to get an aging group of talent primed since 99 over the top. And then took a young offense and aged defense to a second division title in 3 years.

Why do you actually think gruden with cap and draft can't rebuild???

[alldaway]

Gruden and Kiffen are great coaches PERIOD...look at their past success when they have some talent. No one...not even the prized Bill Belicheck could win without any talent on his team (the Browns still sucked).

You Gruden bashers are freaking ridiculous. Have you not noticed how the salary cap has limited us these past few years.

Holy crap, there's a salary cap? Gosh, I wish someone had mentioned that once, twice or whatever thousand odd times it has been brought up.

I like that our great coaches only can coach when they have elite talent. I keep asking, why do other teams with crap for offensive talent (SF, DET for example) do better than us? If our talent is that bad and 11 of 11 offensive players are here at Gruden's request and 7 of 11 defensive players are also his guys does that say he's doing a crappy job of picking his guys?

Talent and cap money help but the difference in the salary cap era comes down to coaching.

i'm frustrated to and now am learning that this season is the lowest of lows. it can only go up from here and i think this time next season we will on the other end of the spectrum.

[alldaway]

Gruden and Kiffen are great coaches PERIOD...look at their past success when they have some talent. No one...not even the prized Bill Belicheck could win without any talent on his team (the Browns still sucked).

You Gruden bashers are freaking ridiculous. Have you not noticed how the salary cap has limited us these past few years.

I like that our great coaches only can coach when they have elite talent.

Jon Gruden = Phil Jackson

Interesting analogy.  Thinking about a little more I think I can buy it.