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dbucfan

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« #30 : January 12, 2008, 08:39:53 PM »

Valero might have grounds to be unhappy.  Regardless of the reason - keeping one's mouth shut as opposed to spouting off about your boss is rule 1 in any job.  

As for his feelings about the title - who cares - was the money right - was he held back or helped by the job and staff.  Title shmiitle.  Stupid move.  Feel sorry for the guy - he might well have ruined his career with his whining about a flippin' title.  Reminds me of folks who talk post counts or "real" fans.  

Oh, and Lorax - damn few comments adverse to Gruden have occurred - three of those who did make them - Key, McCardell and Rice - well lets acknowledge they have a character flaw within the relationship with your employer portion of their make up.  

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

Lorax

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« #31 : January 12, 2008, 08:37:52 PM »

Yes indeed I do.If he wasn't fired or forced out it's not "sour grapes", smarty pants.

Then you should know that what Art did was sour grapes and VERY unprofessional. He was pissed he didn't keep the Assistant HC title and that he wasn't re-hired...and he made the decision to whine about it in the press instead of taking the high-road.



Nowhere have you proved it was bacause he wasn't assist HC or that they weren't going to re-hire him.


Lorax

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« #32 : January 12, 2008, 08:35:54 PM »

It is no secret that Sapp had no love for Key.



Or are you now claiming that anything good that came out of Sapp's mouth
regarding Gruden was intended to piss off Key? If so, you're grasping.

Did not mean he was trying to piss of Key in his statements about Gruden. I was just refering to the comments he made about Key.


Biggs3535

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« #33 : January 12, 2008, 08:31:37 PM »

Yes indeed I do.If he wasn't fired or forced out it's not "sour grapes", smarty pants.

Then you should know that what Art did was sour grapes and VERY unprofessional.  He was pissed he didn't keep the Assistant HC title and that he wasn't re-hired...and he made the decision to whine about it in the press instead of taking the high-road.




ufojoe

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« #34 : January 12, 2008, 08:28:45 PM »

It is no secret that Sapp had no love for Key.

It's simple. You wrote:

I don't believe Sapp had anything nice to say

Is that true or false? From what I have read, it's totally false. Key or no Key.

Or are you now claiming that anything good that came out of Sapp's mouth
regarding Gruden was intended to piss off Key? If so, you're grasping.

Lorax

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« #35 : January 12, 2008, 08:27:16 PM »

Yes indeed I do.If he wasn't fired or forced out it's not "sour grapes", smarty pants.


Lorax

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« #36 : January 12, 2008, 08:24:04 PM »

It is no secret that Sapp had no love for Key.


Biggs3535

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« #37 : January 12, 2008, 08:25:51 PM »

I don't understand why you all keep saying "sour grapes." Can any of you prove Valero was fired or forced out? I don't think it's accidental that we have heard (never mind links, Joe) alot of the same stuff from people who have left here. I don't believe Sapp had anything nice to say and Lynch was not a fan. If you say the players respected Dungy as a person more than a coach maybe the reverse is true of Gruden--more respect for his coaching ability than his personality. And I don't care what you ask or expect, no one on the team ar present is going to bad mouth the coach. And one who did say stuff like this while here--Rice--is gone. Members of 2 different teams have called him 2-faced and phony---ALL sour grapes? I think alot of the apathy surrounding our going to the playoffs was based on dislike for and lack of faith in the coach.

Do you know the definition of "sour grapes?"




ufojoe

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« #38 : January 12, 2008, 08:19:53 PM »

I don't believe Sapp had anything nice to say

Actually, after he left, Sapp called Jon Gruden "his boy" and said he'll always be his boy. Also, you may want to do a little research on the rest of the quotes before you mold them to suit your opinion.

Research? Why would anybody do that? Everybody who left here had nothing good to say about
Gru. BTW, the info. I provided above is from a bucs.com message board post. Not a great source
but it jives with the other article I glimpsed and what DTG remembers.

OpTiOnMaStA

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« #39 : January 12, 2008, 04:11:05 PM »

It is troubling that so many people leave on the terms they do with this team and bad mouth Gruden. It's always the same - he's good with X's and O's but doesn't have the people skills you'd look for from your leader. Hopefully he improves if he is going to continue to be the coach here.

DanTurksGhost

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« #40 : January 12, 2008, 08:17:28 PM »

I don't believe Sapp had anything nice to say

Actually, after he left, Sapp called Jon Gruden "his boy" and said he'll always be his boy. Also, you may want to do a little research on the rest of the quotes before you mold them to suit your opinion.

ufojoe

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« #41 : January 12, 2008, 08:15:11 PM »

I don't understand why you all keep saying "sour grapes." Can any of you prove Valero was fired or forced out? I don't think it's accidental that we have heard (never mind links, Joe) alot of the same stuff from people who have left here. I don't believe Sapp had anything nice to say and Lynch was not a fan.

Not a great source but it's more than you provided.

Sapp was just on PTI and they asked him about Keyshawn and him calling Gruden a "slickster"....Sapp had nothing but good things to say about Gruden. Sapp, para-phrasing from what I remember:

-- no he's not a slickster, doesn't agree with Key
-- if you love football, you love Gruden
-- if Key loved football, he would have done something out there for the money he makes
-- Gruden hard worker
-- Keyshawn needs to stop pointing fingers, should look in the mirror
-- Key needs to stop bs-ing, said he was there and Keyshawn was crushed when he was deactivated
-- said he (Sapp) will always tell you straight, not bs

* * * * * * * * * *

I found another article where Sapp was already gone and he was saying positive things
about Gruden (except for how he was released) but it's $4.00 to read the article.

So Sapp didn't have anything nice to say? Seems like that's bs...

ufojoe

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« #42 : January 12, 2008, 04:09:20 PM »

well one thing is for sure ex-players and coaches always have something negative to say about Gruden  and I for one think its true ;D ;D ;D

Really? Always? Which ones? Please provide links.

Still waiting for those links, Detroit.

I provided one from McCardell and I'd say his nice words about Gruden nixes him off of
that list. Maybe you can link to Simeon's comments dissing Gruden. Where is Simeon
again? Or how about Key? Go link to his comments. Two big mouths.

So let's see the quotes from every former Bucs player and coach who ALWAYS have
negative things to say about Gruden?

Here's an article on how much some of the Raiders disliked Gruden. It's clear he rubbed
some of them the wrong way. The entire article is at the link. I'll use an excerpt from what
I think is the most important part:

(This was written before the Super Bowl)

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9504E6DF1230F933A15752C0A9659C8B63

'There are some hard feelings in here because Gruden was the kind of coach who didn't like to listen as much as he liked to start a conversation and end it,'' one Raider, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said. ''That does not always work with a coach who is not that much older than you. It's harder man to man to respect a guy who carries himself like that.''

Some of the Raiders said that Gruden was so full of himself that even when their work was completed early in a week, he would find extra things for them to work on. Callahan, they said, was the opposite. Work done, and early, too? Great, go home -- that is Callahan's approach. The Raiders say they respect that approach much more and it has showed in their production.

End Excerpt...


So how did that work out for them in thet Super Bowl? And where is Callahan now?

Exactly.

If it were me, I'd rather have a ring than be buddy, buddy with my slacker coach.

I wonder what those same players thought about Gruden after he coached the pants
off of Callahan in the game that mattered most?


Uncle Stan

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« #43 : January 12, 2008, 03:57:17 PM »

DTG,

Good point!

He definitely was a source for the media-even PR.

As tight lipped as the Bucs front office is known for, maybe thats why they weren't even interested in re-signing him.

Learn to disagree without being disagreeable-Ronald Reagan circa 1981

kevabuc

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« #44 : January 12, 2008, 03:52:16 PM »

But he credited the players - not Gruden - for most of the Bucs' success.

Then, conversely, shouldn't we credit the players - not Gruden - for most of the Buc's failures.

\"The budget should be balanced; the treasury should be refilled; public debt should be reduced; and the arrogance of public officials should be controlled.\" -Cicero. 106-43 B.C.
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