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#15 : November 26, 2006, 11:36:18 PM

Dude, did you watch any games today?

Young is showing signs of growing, and that a rookie can get a team fired up.

Leinart threw for 400 yards, and almost had a W against a team that had no business even being close to the Vikes.
  Boid, read again, he's on our side. Welcome, newbie, very insightful & informative post. Kill the stats!                                                                                                           
ella está loca, ausenta

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#16 : November 26, 2006, 11:41:07 PM

With some exceptions, the general feeling around here seems to be that Grads is playing better than both of the high draft picks, Matt Leinart and Vince Young. Many have been throwing around the infamous chart comparing all their stats, and it is true that Grads has been better in most catagories than either of them, at least through this week. However, I firmly believe stats can only bring you so far, and stats never tell the full picture. Anyone would be insane at this point to think Grads is better than either Leinart or Young. Sure, they may not have better stats than Grads, but from watching both Leinart and Young, I'm positive that in this point in thier careers they are both better than Grads.

I watched Matt Leinart calmly dissect the Chicago Bears defense for several long drives, including a last second push to win the game where Leinart did everything he could to secure the victory (until Rackers botched the field goal). Sure Leinart still has yet to match Grads in wins or many other statistical catogories, but the way he directed his team on the field and the presence about him confirmed in my mind that he is the real deal. He has at times this season looked great, not only in the Bears game but also in the Vikings game (405 yards-yikes!). He has just been marred by the inconsistency that most rookies deal with.

The same goes for Young. While he has struggled a great deal more than Leinart, he has no doubt shown the brillance that made him an icon at Texas, mainly in the 4th quarter. He almost brought the Titans from behind against the Ravens, but his kicker blew it. Today against the Giants, a team that Grads looked completely lost against, he calmly lead a great comeback to the tune of 24 points in the final period. Now I'm not saying both Leinart and Young are gods and we should put them in the probowl, to me from what I've seen of them on the field, they have been much more in command than Grads. You cannot be soley bound to the stats sheet. Both Leinart and Young have looked dismal at times, but when the game has clicked for them, they have looked impressive, much more so than watching Grads flop around and throw up his ducks. Grads has had only one game where he has looked good, his first against the Saints. Believe me I want to believe he is the answer and is going to be great, but man he has looked just plain awful. Leinart and Young have given off flashes of brillance, and generally look to be in command of their respective teams. From what I've seen of Grads, he has not shown anything to make me believe in him. At this point, I firmly believe that both Leinart and Young are much better quarterbacks, despite what the stats might say. Their overall play on the field has been miles above what these stats say.

Good post!

No one said Grads was better or would have a better career than Lienart and/or young, the statistical comparisons were made because they are all rookie.  It is completely irrelevant comparing them because we are stuck with Grads in Tampa, and are not fortunate enough to have a blue-chip QB.  What is interesting though is the two 1st round draft picks are making rapid progress, where Simms was still struggling after four years.

So the bottomline is Grads might not be the answer, but Simms definitely isn;t the answer.  We may as well bite the bullet and go QB in round one if Gruden doesn;t thyink Grads can improve/progress.




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#17 : November 26, 2006, 11:42:45 PM

With some exceptions, the general feeling around here seems to be that Grads is playing better than both of the high draft picks, Matt Leinart and Vince Young. Many have been throwing around the infamous chart comparing all their stats, and it is true that Grads has been better in most catagories than either of them, at least through this week. However, I firmly believe stats can only bring you so far, and stats never tell the full picture. Anyone would be insane at this point to think Grads is better than either Leinart or Young. Sure, they may not have better stats than Grads, but from watching both Leinart and Young, I'm positive that in this point in thier careers they are both better than Grads.

I watched Matt Leinart calmly dissect the Chicago Bears defense for several long drives, including a last second push to win the game where Leinart did everything he could to secure the victory (until Rackers botched the field goal). Sure Leinart still has yet to match Grads in wins or many other statistical catogories, but the way he directed his team on the field and the presence about him confirmed in my mind that he is the real deal. He has at times this season looked great, not only in the Bears game but also in the Vikings game (405 yards-yikes!). He has just been marred by the inconsistency that most rookies deal with.

The same goes for Young. While he has struggled a great deal more than Leinart, he has no doubt shown the brillance that made him an icon at Texas, mainly in the 4th quarter. He almost brought the Titans from behind against the Ravens, but his kicker blew it. Today against the Giants, a team that Grads looked completely lost against, he calmly lead a great comeback to the tune of 24 points in the final period. Now I'm not saying both Leinart and Young are gods and we should put them in the probowl, to me from what I've seen of them on the field, they have been much more in command than Grads. You cannot be soley bound to the stats sheet. Both Leinart and Young have looked dismal at times, but when the game has clicked for them, they have looked impressive, much more so than watching Grads flop around and throw up his ducks. Grads has had only one game where he has looked good, his first against the Saints. Believe me I want to believe he is the answer and is going to be great, but man he has looked just plain awful. Leinart and Young have given off flashes of brillance, and generally look to be in command of their respective teams. From what I've seen of Grads, he has not shown anything to make me believe in him. At this point, I firmly believe that both Leinart and Young are much better quarterbacks, despite what the stats might say. Their overall play on the field has been miles above what these stats say.

Good post!

No one said Grads was better or would have a better career than Lienart and/or young, the statistical comparisons were made because they are all rookie.  It is completely irrelevant comparing them because we are stuck with Grads in Tampa, and are not fortunate enough to have a blue-chip QB.  What is interesting though is the two 1st round draft picks are making rapid progress, where Simms was still struggling after four years.

So the bottomline is Grads might not be the answer, but Simms definitely isn;t the answer.  We may as well bite the bullet and go QB in round one if Gruden doesn;t thyink Grads can improve/progress.
agreed MJS.....on nearly all points



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#18 : November 26, 2006, 11:41:54 PM

also Karen you accept this noob's comments but not the person with 19 posts in the other thread who stood up for the G-Man....play favorites much?

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#19 : November 26, 2006, 11:45:13 PM

she has this fetish, she thinks this is some type of war....I guess she loves seeing people argue and her being on the less populated side so if somehow that comes out to be the 'correct' side she can act like a big whig who has great vision...

I know, believe me, she's very transparent. However, I'm actually starting to find her obsession a little bit creepy.

this board is up sh1t creek and posters like Karen are a large part of the problem.  When my subscription is up in a couple of months I am quitting the site.


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#20 : November 26, 2006, 11:46:03 PM

So you put nothing in the article by Vic Carucci on nfl.com? You are so busy spouting crap about how great Grads is with stats ad nauseum, but nothing to say when somebody actually connected to football shoots down your arguement. And you choose to ignore the other posters agreeing with me. His actually sounded intelligent & made more sense.  Saying "I think he'll get better" is twaddle. Support it with intelligent reasoning, i'e' the nfl story. No use comparing Vince & Matt to Grads?  Isn't that what you've been doing ad nauseum with stats ?  If you don't like my posts then just agree to disagree & quit trying to convert to your side. And why do you act like I'm the only one with this opinion?



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#21 : November 26, 2006, 11:46:39 PM

she has this fetish, she thinks this is some type of war....I guess she loves seeing people argue and her being on the less populated side so if somehow that comes out to be the 'correct' side she can act like a big whig who has great vision...

I know, believe me, she's very transparent. However, I'm actually starting to find her obsession a little bit creepy.

this board is up sh1t creek and posters like Karen are a large part of the problem. When my subscription is up in a couple of months I am quitting the site.
you can't leave man...your like....the man around here. Don't let the noobs run you off.



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#22 : November 26, 2006, 11:47:49 PM

So you put nothing in the article by Vic Carucci on nfl.com? You are so busy spouting crap about how great Grads is with stats ad nauseum, but nothing to say when somebody actually connected to football shoots down your arguement. And you choose to ignore the other posters agreeing with me. His actually sounded intelligent & made more sense.  Saying "I think he'll get better" is twaddle. Support it with intelligent reasoning, i'e' the nfl story.
actually if you read the orignal poster's post....that was all directed at him/her....in the other thread I addressed Mr. Carucci

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#23 : November 26, 2006, 11:52:22 PM

she has this fetish, she thinks this is some type of war....I guess she loves seeing people argue and her being on the less populated side so if somehow that comes out to be the 'correct' side she can act like a big whig who has great vision...

I know, believe me, she's very transparent. However, I'm actually starting to find her obsession a little bit creepy.

this board is up sh1t creek and posters like Karen are a large part of the problem. When my subscription is up in a couple of months I am quitting the site.
you can't leave man...your like....the man around here. Don't let the noobs run you off.

This board isn't what it was bro.  Many of the knowledgeable posters have left or aren't posting much anymore.  It just isn't enjoyable or even interesting these days.  I would delete my account now but I have two or three months subs left.




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#24 : November 26, 2006, 11:58:26 PM

she has this fetish, she thinks this is some type of war....I guess she loves seeing people argue and her being on the less populated side so if somehow that comes out to be the 'correct' side she can act like a big whig who has great vision...

I know, believe me, she's very transparent. However, I'm actually starting to find her obsession a little bit creepy.

this board is up sh1t creek and posters like Karen are a large part of the problem. When my subscription is up in a couple of months I am quitting the site.
you can't leave man...your like....the man around here. Don't let the noobs run you off.

This board isn't what it was bro. Many of the knowledgeable posters have left or aren't posting much anymore. It just isn't enjoyable or even interesting these days. I would delete my account now but I have two or three months subs left.
I know what you mean....best wishes man, I'm hoping when that time comes you do at least post a farewell rather than just vanishing like some have.

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#25 : November 27, 2006, 12:04:43 AM

I'm sorry to offend you guys--it is not my intention to run anyone off. But I am certainly entitled to my opinion even if it is not the same as yours. I am not the only one who feels this way, but you really like going after me. You have to know the endless stats are freaking annoying & don't really prove much. And I don't know why you think my dislike of Brucie is obsessive. I haven't gone nearly off the deep end about him like Redtab did about Simms. Grads to me just fits the expression you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.You are entitled to your opinion as am I. And we're obviously not changing each other's minds. But I do think you guys go overboard after me & your determination to force your absolute law on everyone else.

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#26 : November 27, 2006, 12:21:26 AM

I'm sorry to offend you guys--it is not my intention to run anyone off. But I am certainly entitled to my opinion even if it is not the same as yours. I am not the only one who feels this way, but you really like going after me. You have to know the endless stats are freaking annoying & don't really prove much. And I don't know why you think my dislike of Brucie is obsessive. I haven't gone nearly off the deep end about him like Redtab did about Simms. Grads to me just fits the expression you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.You are entitled to your opinion as am I. And we're obviously not changing each other's minds. But I do think you guys go overboard after me & your determination to force your absolute law on everyone else.

It isn't you Karen, just the general quality of the board and posters. When I arrived this board was great, lots of intelligent chat and friendly banter. Take a look at the thread Prefer started the otherday, it was a great thread, and that was the norm two years ago. Alas, everything in life changes.
   Maybe you guys could start a few more like that instead of just pushing Gruden & Grads.  Do you mean the one for the wiser folks?  You told me it wasn't directed to me so I'll try to stay out of your philisophical ramblings.

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#27 : November 27, 2006, 12:09:50 AM

I'm sorry to offend you guys--it is not my intention to run anyone off. But I am certainly entitled to my opinion even if it is not the same as yours. I am not the only one who feels this way, but you really like going after me. You have to know the endless stats are freaking annoying & don't really prove much. And I don't know why you think my dislike of Brucie is obsessive. I haven't gone nearly off the deep end about him like Redtab did about Simms. Grads to me just fits the expression you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.You are entitled to your opinion as am I. And we're obviously not changing each other's minds. But I do think you guys go overboard after me & your determination to force your absolute law on everyone else.

It isn't you Karen, just the general quality of the board and posters.  When I arrived this board was great, lots of intelligent chat and friendly banter.    Take a look at the thread Prefer started the otherday, it was a great thread, and that was the norm two years ago.  Alas, everything in life changes.


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#28 : November 27, 2006, 12:13:02 AM

she has this fetish, she thinks this is some type of war....I guess she loves seeing people argue and her being on the less populated side so if somehow that comes out to be the 'correct' side she can act like a big whig who has great vision...

I know, believe me, she's very transparent. However, I'm actually starting to find her obsession a little bit creepy.

this board is up sh1t creek and posters like Karen are a large part of the problem. When my subscription is up in a couple of months I am quitting the site.
you can't leave man...your like....the man around here. Don't let the noobs run you off.

This board isn't what it was bro.  Many of the knowledgeable posters have left or aren't posting much anymore.  It just isn't enjoyable or even interesting these days.  I would delete my account now but I have two or three months subs left.
Yes, It's gotten quit depressing around here with the haters taking over.

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#29 : November 27, 2006, 12:34:33 AM

For me, it IS posters like Karen who make this place a waste of time.

None of the posters you mantioned (DTG, MJS, etc...) ever said Grads was the answer.
We said that you can't judge a rookie until after he has a few years at the helm.
Rookies struggle for the first few years. Go look at Eli. How's Big Ben playing
this year? Grads may turn out to be a 3rd stringer at best. Or, he could
turn out to be a solid starter. It is waaaaaaay too early to determine that.
Saying it over and over each week just doesn't seem to sink into Karen's
or other poster's heads.

And as far as us loving Gruden? Yeah, I do. But I won't cry if he is let go
because of lack of improvement this year. And if it happens this year, life
will go on and I'll support the new coach.
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