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Boid Fink

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#30 : December 11, 2006, 01:36:43 PM

Gruden is more interested in improving the offense than winning games. The guy won a Superbowl with defense. Instead of keeping the defense elite, he completely ignores that side of the ball and now we are at the bottom of the league and in rebuilding mode.

This is the first time in over a decade the Bucs have fallen out of the Top 10, so how does that equate to IGNORING THE DEFENSE, as you falsely implicate?  The Bucs defense (wether a mirage or not), was still #1 last year (#2, IMVHO, but....regardless).  The personnel has been lacking sure, but the money was not there to be spent.  Do you think Gruden would let this defense slide next year?  He isn't trying to turn the Bucs into the Colts now....

How about that Dungy led defense, anyway?  LMAO!!!


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#31 : December 11, 2006, 01:40:08 PM

Everyone here who thinks Gruden won with Dungy's team needs to check into a friggin' mental hospital...there was a 45% player turnover you friggin' retards. Pittman, Oben, Dilger, Dudley, McCardell, Joe J, Quarles to MLB, and several reserves were all new during his first year here. Anyone remember JJ's catch in Philly? Keenan's 2 TD's in the Bowl? If it were dungy it would have been different memories! Remember Reidel getting alligator arms in Philly? Remember Jaquez getting...huh do you remember him being in the Philly game? Me neither! Remember how close the bucs came to getting to the Super Bowl? That would be our memories...get a life Dungy Jockers...his nutz have moved on...release and quit massaging.

Attitude reflects leadership, Captain.  - Julius (Remember the Titans)

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#32 : December 11, 2006, 01:42:06 PM


This is the first time in over a decade the Bucs have fallen out of the Top 10, so how does that equate to IGNORING THE DEFENSE, as you falsely implicate?  The Bucs defense (wether a mirage or not), was still #1 last year (#2, IMVHO, but....regardless).  The personnel has been lacking sure, but the money was not there to be spent.  Do you think Gruden would let this defense slide next year?  He isn't trying to turn the Bucs into the Colts now....

How about that Dungy led defense, anyway?  LMAO!!!

What have we done to improve the defense seriously? Nothing. He drafted Ruud in the 2nd round. He brought in Hovan for the league minimum. It's no suprise now that the wheels are coming off. 31 teams have drafted defense in the 1st round this decade.

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#33 : December 11, 2006, 01:43:17 PM

Gruden is more interested in improving the offense than winning games. The guy won a Superbowl with defense. Instead of keeping the defense elite, he completely ignores that side of the ball and now we are at the bottom of the league and in rebuilding mode.

If that were true can you please tell me why the defense accounts for more than 2/3rds of the current cap?


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#34 : December 11, 2006, 01:47:18 PM

Gruden is more interested in improving the offense than winning games. The guy won a Superbowl with defense. Instead of keeping the defense elite, he completely ignores that side of the ball and now we are at the bottom of the league and in rebuilding mode.

One of the more idiotic posts I've seen in a long time.

What's the point of getting into a discussion when you deal with this type of logic?

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#35 : December 11, 2006, 01:48:35 PM


This is the first time in over a decade the Bucs have fallen out of the Top 10, so how does that equate to IGNORING THE DEFENSE, as you falsely implicate?  The Bucs defense (wether a mirage or not), was still #1 last year (#2, IMVHO, but....regardless).  The personnel has been lacking sure, but the money was not there to be spent.  Do you think Gruden would let this defense slide next year?  He isn't trying to turn the Bucs into the Colts now....

How about that Dungy led defense, anyway?  LMAO!!!

What have we done to improve the defense seriously? Nothing. He drafted Ruud in the 2nd round. He brought in Hovan for the league minimum. It's no suprise now that the wheels are coming off. 31 teams have drafted defense in the 1st round this decade.

Lets see, he did bring in Hovan to stuff the run.  And last year, and even in moments this year, he is worth the salary the Bucs pay him.  He is not one of the expoendable one, IMO, so that was a great signing.  Ruud in the second is going to be crucial, considering the age and status of Q.  SO yes, that was a great signing, and it is a cheap signing.  Keep in mind, the Bucs do not have money to work with here, so all those things are HUGE factors.  Remember that.
And they let DexJax go because they figured, as we all did, that Will Allen made some splash plays last year, so he was ready to take the reigns, and JP was annointed the future at SS, and he is salary cap friendly as well.  So those moves all appeared nice, and considering the Bucs abilities and performance on defense, who would have figgured the dam would break so fast?  They resigned BArber, and Kelly got hurt.  Nece is an adequate Sambacker.  And the defense is ranked higher than initially at the start of the season, so they did improve on some minute level...

Too many factors, but watching the moves be made, I NEVER thought that the defense was being ignored.  I thought they had chump change to work with, so the best they could do was bring in duct tape guys.  The defense will be better next year, because it can't get much worse.


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#36 : December 11, 2006, 01:49:05 PM


If that were true can you please tell me why the defense accounts for more than 2/3rds of the current cap?

There's no "if". The defense gets so much of the cap because that's what happens when you give aging vets massive contracts instead of bringing in younger players. Now none of those big money players are worth what they are making. That will change next year.

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#37 : December 11, 2006, 01:52:18 PM


If that were true can you please tell me why the defense accounts for more than 2/3rds of the current cap?

There's no "if". The defense gets so much of the cap because that's what happens when you give aging vets massive contracts instead of bringing in younger players. Now none of those big money players are worth what they are making. That will change next year.

Simeon Rice, Derrick Brooks.  That is all I got to say.


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#38 : December 11, 2006, 01:53:46 PM

This is just absolutley ridiculous conversation....haha, geez........



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#39 : December 11, 2006, 01:54:16 PM


If that were true can you please tell me why the defense accounts for more than 2/3rds of the current cap?

There's no "if". The defense gets so much of the cap because that's what happens when you give aging vets massive contracts instead of bringing in younger players. Now none of those big money players are worth what they are making. That will change next year.

Anbd who's fault was that? I am sure Gruden like the rest of us thought he could get one more year out of a #1 defense. Have to ask yourself-- where were the holes--- OLINE, QB, WR, and OLINE, and OLINE. And as opthers have pointed out-- where was the cap to spend on D. LAst i checked he has brought in Hovan who was a dman good pickup. Ruud has played admirably in his time here. Winborn is very good depth. So he has not ingnored the defense at all.


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#40 : December 11, 2006, 01:55:01 PM


If that were true can you please tell me why the defense accounts for more than 2/3rds of the current cap?

There's no "if". The defense gets so much of the cap because that's what happens when you give aging vets massive contracts instead of bringing in younger players. Now none of those big money players are worth what they are making. That will change next year.

Anbd who's fault was that? I am sure Gruden like the rest of us thought he could get one more year out of a #1 defense. Have to ask yourself-- where were the holes--- OLINE, QB, WR, and OLINE, and OLINE. And as opthers have pointed out-- where was the cap to spend on D. LAst i checked he has brought in Hovan who was a dman good pickup. Ruud has played admirably in his time here. Winborn is very good depth. So he has not ingnored the defense at all.
Game, set, match.


cvillebucfan

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#41 : December 11, 2006, 01:57:17 PM

I don't know guys, this seems to be one of these arguments you just cannot win no matter how black and white you can put it...



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#42 : December 11, 2006, 01:58:45 PM

I don't know guys, this seems to be one of these arguments you just cannot win no matter how black and white you can put it...

Unless you pull up PURE STATS, there really is never a right/wrong argument in these types of disputes.  How can there be?  One bounce, one moment is all it takes to reverse a lot of peoples thinking.  They are all editorials for the most part, and that is fine by me.


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#43 : December 11, 2006, 01:59:23 PM

Gruden is more interested in improving the offense than winning games. The guy won a Superbowl with defense. Instead of keeping the defense elite, he completely ignores that side of the ball and now we are at the bottom of the league and in rebuilding mode.

What?

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#44 : December 11, 2006, 02:08:16 PM


Anbd who's fault was that? I am sure Gruden like the rest of us thought he could get one more year out of a #1 defense. Have to ask yourself-- where were the holes--- OLINE, QB, WR, and OLINE, and OLINE. And as opthers have pointed out-- where was the cap to spend on D. LAst i checked he has brought in Hovan who was a dman good pickup. Ruud has played admirably in his time here. Winborn is very good depth. So he has not ingnored the defense at all.

I knew the defense would fall apart soon, and I have been saying it for years. I'm not talking about spending cap on defense. Draft picks don't cost much, and should be used to get younger. We haven't drafted defense in the 1st round for seven years. Since Gruden has been here we have used 8 first day picks on offense, including 3 1st rounders, compared to 3 first day picks on defense. Hovan is average and Winborn is nothing, not sure why you brought him up.
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