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yuccaneers

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« : February 12, 2008, 01:10:07 PM »

While widereceiver is a perceived need, not sure it is worth spending mega cap dollars or even a first day selection on one. Based off of history, Since Gruden has been a head Coach / Offensive play caller he has not had a pair of receiver’s finish within ten receptions of each other but twice during that span.

When looking over the stats is seems that Jon Gruden’s inability to make a game plan outside his number one receiver, his running back, and his quarterback is where the real problem festers.

Is it ego or just neglect?

Tend to believe it is some of both while Gruden has publicly stated he would love to throw the ball all game, he still doesn’t manage to involve other receivers outside his number one. Great coaches find a way to get other players involved in the game plan, to squeeze every once of talent and ability out of a player.

Oakland
First year : Tim Brown 81 catches, James Jett 45
Second year: Brown 90 catches, Jett 39, Jon Richie did have 45
Third year: Brown 76 catches, Andre Rison 41
Fourth year: Brown 90 catches, Jerry Rice 83, Charlie Garner 71

Tampa Bay
Fifth year: Keyshawn Johnson 76 catches, McCardell 61, Pittman 59
Sixth year: McCardell 83 catches, Johnson 45, Pittman 75
Seventh year: Clayton 80 catches, Ken Dilger 39, Galloway 33
Eighth year: Galloway 83 catches, Hilliard 35
Ninth year: Galloway 62 catches, Hilliard 34, Alex Smith 35
Tenth year: Hilliard 62 catches, Galloway 57

In Football, RESPECT is never given freely by your opponent. It must be TAKEN from them...VIOLENTLY

Great players cost a lot of money but help win games. High-priced players - a byproduct of poorly run front offices with bad scouting departments - only cost a lot of money.
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alldaway

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« #1 : February 12, 2008, 01:18:01 PM »

Gruden's most balanced offense as the Bucs head coach was the first year he was here with the #3 player (Pittman) close behind the #2 player (McCardell) and the #2 close behind the #1 (Keyshawn).

The stats the last few years have been skewed some what due to the fact of the departures of Keyshawn, McCardell, fall of play of Clayton, and Galloway as the only option until last year.

Last year the offense was far more balanced and resembled a lot like the 2002 offense in distribution.

That is why I would not call it ego nor neglect rather necessity due to the fact the last few years Galloway was the only reliable weapon honestly.






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« #2 : February 12, 2008, 01:24:50 PM »

When looking over the stats is seems that Jon Gruden’s inability to make a game plan outside his number one receiver, his running back, and his quarterback is where the real problem festers.

I agree whole-heartedly with that assessment. However, why not use the mega-dollars to upgrade our one weapon to say..... Ocho Cinco?

alldaway

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« #3 : February 12, 2008, 01:29:01 PM »

Gruden has shown he can create a gameplan that involves all other players on offense.  That is when his offense is at his best and running all cylinders.  When he can find matchups he likes for his #3 WR or #2 TE.


mediator12

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« #4 : February 12, 2008, 01:38:21 PM »

While widereceiver is a perceived need, not sure it is worth spending mega cap dollars or even a first day selection on one. Based off of history, Since Gruden has been a head Coach / Offensive play caller he has not had a pair of receiver’s finish within ten receptions of each other but twice during that span.

When looking over the stats is seems that Jon Gruden’s inability to make a game plan outside his number one receiver, his running back, and his quarterback is where the real problem festers.

Is it ego or just neglect?

Tend to believe it is some of both while Gruden has publicly stated he would love to throw the ball all game, he still doesn’t manage to involve other receivers outside his number one. Great coaches find a way to get other players involved in the game plan, to squeeze every once of talent and ability out of a player.

Oakland
First year : Tim Brown 81 catches, James Jett 45
Second year: Brown 90 catches, Jett 39, Jon Richie did have 45
Third year: Brown 76 catches, Andre Rison 41
Fourth year: Brown 90 catches, Jerry Rice 83, Charlie Garner 71

Tampa Bay
Fifth year: Keyshawn Johnson 76 catches, McCardell 61, Pittman 59
Sixth year: McCardell 83 catches, Johnson 45, Pittman 75
Seventh year: Clayton 80 catches, Ken Dilger 39, Galloway 33
Eighth year: Galloway 83 catches, Hilliard 35
Ninth year: Galloway 62 catches, Hilliard 34, Alex Smith 35
Tenth year: Hilliard 62 catches, Galloway 57


While a certainly intriguing topic, I find the lack of causality to be apparent.  By that, It assumes you have more information about the playcalls, personnel, gameplanning, game situations, injuries, and philosophy than you could possibly have.  A+B=C in math, but in this circumstance the variables are more than you accounted for outside of statisitcal production.  Statistical production does not equal the coaching competence of the head coach in the NFL, it takes at minimum 20 more variables to evaluate WHY those numbers where achieved.  I am all for keeping things simple, but in this case, that is just too simple to have any validity or reliability from a hypothetical standpoint.

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« #5 : February 12, 2008, 02:17:51 PM »

I am not sure what the correlation is in the stats you posted.  How exactly does reception totals within 10 of other players equal good offense.  I think looking at the stats posted the only thing that jumps out to me without knowing more (as mediator12 points out) is that it appears that the more threats at WR the better the reception totals are...see 2001 raiders with rice, brown, garner...which was a big jump from the year before with just Brown and a washed up Andre Rison.  I am not saying I am for chucking a bunch of money at a WR, but I think it is a need and should be addressed.   I also think it makes more sense to spend on a WR than it does a RB like Michael Turner. 

bizkitlimped

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« #6 : February 12, 2008, 02:24:55 PM »

When looking over the stats is seems that Jon Gruden’s inability to make a game plan outside his number one receiver, his running back, and his quarterback is where the real problem festers.

I agree whole-heartedly with that assessment. However, why not use the mega-dollars to upgrade our one weapon to say..... Ocho Cinco?

Agreed, or at least several younger WR's who have the speed we lack. A la Andre Davis, Bryant Johnson and Bernard Berrian to name a few.


Fresh

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« #7 : February 13, 2008, 02:52:49 PM »

i agree but personally i don't think the cardinals will move larry fitz or Q this year. we should make a good offer to the bengals. the bengals would only take a 4 million cap hit this year, and 4 the next.. looking at their cap space thats nothing


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Pirate Zone

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« #8 : February 13, 2008, 05:30:20 PM »

If they don't upgrade to at least 1-2 superstar playmakers at reciever this year to go along with Galloway, then we will be looking at a 6-10 season or worse after teams just completely shut us down up front.


John Galt?

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« #9 : February 13, 2008, 06:00:10 PM »

If they don't upgrade to at least 1-2 superstar playmakers at reciever this year to go along with Galloway, then we will be looking at a 6-10 season or worse after teams just completely shut us down up front.

We don't need superstars, just good route runners with good hands and some speed.

As this last SB proved, you don't need Randy Moss, with a great D a Burress is enough.


Pirate Zone

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« #10 : February 13, 2008, 09:36:11 PM »

Ummmm Burress is an awesome playmaker with great hands John Galt so.............. ???


cyberdude557

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« #11 : February 14, 2008, 02:47:40 AM »

We need playmakers on this offense. That's obvious.

SwarmingDefense

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« #12 : February 14, 2008, 02:57:42 AM »

85 and burress are about the same.... and both of them together didn't have 23 TDs


John Galt?

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« #13 : February 14, 2008, 01:07:08 PM »

Ummmm Burress is an awesome playmaker with great hands John Galt so.............. ???

.....so he is a heck of a lot cheaper than Moss.  We don't need a high-profile BIG money WR, we need a playmaker with great hands.


tbc_bucs

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« #14 : February 14, 2008, 01:57:28 PM »

We just need a number two receiver without the last name Hilliard. Hilliard was a great number 3 receiver, he always found a way to get open, especially on 3rd down. I believe that we could have Galloway as our number one as long as we find a viable number two that can make some after the catch plays and score some TD's.

Stovall and Clayton, wake up!!!!!!!
Gruden, give someone else a chance besides Galloway, we rely too much on him. I think Clayton needs to be used on slants and short physical routes and we could use stovall in the red zone...

a True number would would be awesome but I dont see us getting that.

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