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alldaway

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« #15 : November 29, 2006, 12:01:08 PM »

The scouts questioned Simms toughness (mentally and physcially) and they have been proven wrong so far. Scouts are not perfect and everyone see things differently.

Yeah proven wrong in the pros, Simms was a basket case at Texas...Who would think that Simms would have the toughness he does today after his track record at Texas and choking and losing every single year to Oklahoma in big games?

You must be either not too bright or you are trying to open yourself from some serious flaming.  Are you honestly questioning Simms' toughness?

Simms has shown toughness not only in the pros but in his collegiate career.  This label of him being soft physically and mentally was silly and way off by some of the scouts.

Manning had issues winning the "big" games in college but no one called him "soft".

watson

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« #16 : November 29, 2006, 12:01:21 PM »

Has anyone gone back and check the pre-draft report on Tom Brady?  It would be interesting to see how they described him.

Truths:
1.  Never have an argument with an idiot.  They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with their experience.
2.  For some it would be better if they remained silent and be thought a fool than to speak and erase all doubt.

alldaway

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« #17 : November 29, 2006, 12:01:56 PM »


ADW, arm strength is throwing a 15 yard out, on a line away from coverage,

Which Gradkowski did in the first New Orleans game which you did not watch.

Ok, why has he not done it since then if that is in his repertoire? Anyone can throw a fade, its doesn't take great arm strength to hit a 40 yard fade, its takes arm strength throwing a 15 yard out on a line, that translates into about a 35 yard rope, Grads cannot to do that...

It wasn't a fade but nice of you to try.  ??? ??? ???

naplesbuc

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« #18 : November 29, 2006, 12:02:51 PM »

Bruce's arm strength is sufficient but he has to have perfect timing given the lesser arm strength.  Whether he can pull that off is not clear at this point.  He's made all the throws at certain times (i.e. Saints game) but has't been able to do it with consistency - just what you would expect from a rooke. 

I would not characterize him as having a weak arm.  Pennington has a weaker arm and yet has been very successful.

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« #19 : November 29, 2006, 12:03:38 PM »

I think that some people are ignoring one facet of Grads College career - results. Though he may have some limitations, and I agree he did not play a great deal against the top tier competition, somehow he overcame his perceived 'weaknesses' and succeeded in the one stat that is the most important - win games.

I agree it would be foolish to say that Grads is the man of the future, and he has not lit the place on fire, but considering his draft position, experience and weaknesses he has not been too shabby IMO. The biggest problem is not your weaknesses but not recognizing you have them. If you know your strengths AND weaknesses you can modify your game so that one is highlighted and the other hidden. The one bit of the report that I disagree with at this point and is important is his decisiveness. He has appearred pretty decisive to me.

alldaway

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« #20 : November 29, 2006, 12:04:10 PM »

Anyone questioning Simms' toughness is nuts IMVHO.

Pick6

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« #21 : November 29, 2006, 12:04:28 PM »

november of last year he was playing northern illinois and bowling green, november of this year he's playing dallas & carolina - hackett and gruden have come out and said his deep ball issues are not due to arm strength, but rather to timingfootwork, a very coachable issue

the scouting report got him drafted in the 6th round, but a guy coming from toledo has never even sniffed the level of coaching that he's getting from gruden and hackett....he's not gonna be peyton manning or carson palmer, but he'll leave this league a far better QB than he entered it, because most of his flaws come down to mechanics and game awareness...

Itchalot

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« #22 : November 29, 2006, 12:05:15 PM »

I recently read the NFL scouting service report on Gradkowski furnished to all the teams before the last draft. It read in part:

“His lack of arm strength hinders his ability to throw accurately on medium and deep
 passes---defensive backs get a good break on the ball and can make plays to break
up passes due to his lack or zip”.

Another report read: “spends more time than needed eyeing his primary targets and seems to hesitate looking off to find his secondary receivers—is not known for making decisions instantly---Has smaller than ideal hands and this could possibly be the reason for some fumble issues.”

It certainly looks like the scouts got it right. You have to wonder why in the world would a team want a QB that can’t spread the field with a threat of the long pass, and has so many other negatives, unless the QB possessed so many overwhelming qualities you could disregard these faults. It looks like he has so many negatives to overcome It will take years, if it can even be done.

I am now questioning Gruden’s judgment on player personnel and concerned he is letting his feelings about the person interferes with his judgment of the player.


I  think you got it wrong. I don't think its Gruden's emotions for his player. Its his emotions for his playbook.  He wants to run his offense and he wants to take advantages of the defensive weaknesses.  But he doesn't want to take into account the weaknesses of his own offense.  

Exhibit A of course is the Giants game.  They didn't measure the wind in MPH that day. They measured it in cats.  Cat 1, Cat 2....  But Gruden saw the weakness in the Giants pass defense.  He just didn't see the weakness in his own offense, that Grads is inconsistent in the deep ball.  

This wasn't Gruden giving up on the run too soon.   Gruden's plan was to catch the defense on the deep passes, and he stuck with that plan through hell and high water even when it was evident that it wasn't working.  

My one complaint about Gruden, that even other Gruden backers like myself can probably agree with, is that Gruden does not tailor his gameplan to fit the players.  He tries to make the players fit the gameplan and sometimes they just don't fit.  And sometimes you leave some options off the table because they don't fit the gameplan, most specifically the Caddy.


cvillebucfan

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« #23 : November 29, 2006, 12:06:42 PM »

The scouts questioned Simms toughness (mentally and physcially) and they have been proven wrong so far. Scouts are not perfect and everyone see things differently.

Yeah proven wrong in the pros, Simms was a basket case at Texas...Who would think that Simms would have the toughness he does today after his track record at Texas and choking and losing every single year to Oklahoma in big games?

You must be either not too bright or you are trying to open yourself from some serious flaming. Are you honestly questioning Simms' toughness?

Simms has shown toughness not only in the pros but in his collegiate career. This label of him being soft physically and mentally was silly and way off by some of the scouts.

Manning had issues winning the "big" games in college but no one called him "soft".

Yes, in college, hell yes I would question his mental and physical toughness. Did you not see him play in the his teams "make or break" game every year against Oklahoma? Do we need to pull stats, do we need video footage for you to see that he would cave in, underachive, cost his team...Do you not remember that?

What i said was is exactly what is above. Coming into the NFL what did scouts have to evaluate on Simms? They had his most recent body of work ADW, they had the underachiving guy that appeared to be a mommas boy, ok? Simms is an extremely tough SOB, for christ sakes they dude nearly died playing football, missed 2 plays.



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alldaway

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« #24 : November 29, 2006, 12:09:01 PM »

Simms showed he was tough in college as well not just in the Pros. 


cvillebucfan

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« #25 : November 29, 2006, 12:09:20 PM »


ADW, arm strength is throwing a 15 yard out, on a line away from coverage,

Which Gradkowski did in the first New Orleans game which you did not watch.

Ok, why has he not done it since then if that is in his repertoire? Anyone can throw a fade, its doesn't take great arm strength to hit a 40 yard fade, its takes arm strength throwing a 15 yard out on a line, that translates into about a 35 yard rope, Grads cannot to do that...

It wasn't a fade but nice of you to try. ??? ??? ???

No kidding, its was a deep post. I am speaking in general ADW, arm strength is not necessarily how far you can throw the ball, its velocity, trajectory and arm strength. Sure any NFL guy can throw a 40 yard bomb down the side line but can they throw the 15 yard out on a rope, away from coverage, Grads can't.



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alldaway

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« #26 : November 29, 2006, 12:09:56 PM »


ADW, arm strength is throwing a 15 yard out, on a line away from coverage,

Which Gradkowski did in the first New Orleans game which you did not watch.

Ok, why has he not done it since then if that is in his repertoire? Anyone can throw a fade, its doesn't take great arm strength to hit a 40 yard fade, its takes arm strength throwing a 15 yard out on a line, that translates into about a 35 yard rope, Grads cannot to do that...

It wasn't a fade but nice of you to try. ??? ??? ???

No kidding, its was a deep post. I am speaking in general ADW, arm strength is not necessarily how far you can throw the ball, its velocity, trajectory and arm strength. Sure any NFL guy can throw a 40 yard bomb down the side line but can they throw the 15 yard out on a rope, away from coverage, Grads can't.

No keep trying.

cvillebucfan

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« #27 : November 29, 2006, 12:11:08 PM »

Bruce's arm strength is sufficient but he has to have perfect timing given the lesser arm strength. Whether he can pull that off is not clear at this point. He's made all the throws at certain times (i.e. Saints game) but has't been able to do it with consistency - just what you would expect from a rooke.

I would not characterize him as having a weak arm. Pennington has a weaker arm and yet has been very successful.

Naples buc hit it on the head! Gradkowskis margain for error throwing 10 yards + is greatly increased because he lacks the arm strength.



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cvillebucfan

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« #28 : November 29, 2006, 12:14:55 PM »

McNabb's QBR from his last 5 NFL starts (in order) his rookie year, what consistent improvement do we see there:
51.3
99.1
82.3
24.4
69.7



Dal are we seriously comparing donovan mcnabbs' rookie year to bruce gradkowski? Gimmie a break guys! Lets compare QB ratings when Grads gets to year 5, if he does. All rookies suck! What do you want to see out of Grads compared to mcnabb? 2-30 passing for 5 yards and 10 picks? would that equivelate things?



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cvillebucfan

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« #29 : November 29, 2006, 12:15:29 PM »

Simms showed he was tough in college as well not just in the Pros.



Yeah he was as mentally tough as you can get! Good point!



Baghead #2
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