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#75 : November 30, 2006, 10:21:34 AM

People in the pro-Grads side are as bad the anti-Grad types. His arm isn't strong enough. You can talk about this throw or that but on a consistent basis he doesn't have a big time NFL arm (Palmer). He doesn't even have an average NFL arm (Brady). What he's got is Chad Pennington, Brad Johnson arm. Now, obviously before Penny got hurt umpteen times and Brad before he got to 38 or whatever he is now were both fine QB's and had a nice long career. Arm strength is the most overrated NFL ability. He can't toss a 15 yards out, very few offenses live and die on the 15 yard out. Give me smart, accurate and good decision making over arm strength any day.

Dal you are missing the point. Hardly any teams at all rely on the 15 yard out. Its chess no checkers....You don't have to throw the 15 yard out, its an example of stretching a defense wide, opening up the middle. Grads can't stretch it deep or wide and the defenses sit and wait on Grads resulting in WR's getting hit upon ball arrival, tipped passes, short gains and so on. You don't have to have a rocket arm but you have to be able to strecth a defense deep and wide. Deep is easy, grads can throw a fade, any NFL QB can do that. Its the throws that you have to have enough arm strength to arc over a LB who drops into a hook zone, it takes arms strength to throw over coverage (LB), past the CB's coverage on the WR, that is arm strength and that is what Grads lacks. Can everyone understand this? I'm not saying he can't throw deep, he can but he better be quick as hell with his decision making and he hasn't been.

and what is typically the biggest factor in decision making? Experience?

HK decision making is seeing Galloway is one on one with safety help on a slow CB (anthony henry) and waiting to throw the ball resulting in a tipped pass and missed TD throw. Sure he will get better with time, but hell anyone gets better with time...

really? cuz I watched Dilfer suck for years.

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#76 : November 30, 2006, 10:22:32 AM

Just remember the excuse of the year......HES JUST A ROOKIE.
Next year is will be....its just his second season in Gruden's system it usually takes three.

Even a rookie would show consistanct improvement. Bruce looks just as bad now as he did when he started his first game

umm you did watch the NO game didnt you? I'm pretty sure he looked good and drove us down the field in the waning minutes to take the lead. on the road.


And why in the world are we talking about a game that was 6 someodd weeks ago???

NO had no tape on the guy, had no idea what to expect, it was his first start. Yeah it was good...did you see the thanksgiving day game last week?



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#77 : November 30, 2006, 10:23:54 AM

If your trashing Gradkowski, you have no leg to stand on if your a Simms supporter.  

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#78 : November 30, 2006, 10:26:44 AM

Just remember the excuse of the year......HES JUST A ROOKIE.
Next year is will be....its just his second season in Gruden's system it usually takes three.

Even a rookie would show consistanct improvement. Bruce looks just as bad now as he did when he started his first game

umm you did watch the NO game didnt you? I'm pretty sure he looked good and drove us down the field in the waning minutes to take the lead. on the road.


And why in the world are we talking about a game that was 6 someodd weeks ago???

NO had no tape on the guy, had no idea what to expect, it was his first start. Yeah it was good...did you see the thanksgiving day game last week?

UT brought it up[and said he looked awful. I simply refuted it. And ya Grads looked bad during Tday. he's also looked bad during other games and alternately looked good during games.
And the whole game tape thing is lame excuse, if grads sucked he would have come out and bombed his first start. Does this mean he'll be good? or a perenial back up I have no idea, but he deserves more time before you make an assesment .

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#79 : November 30, 2006, 10:30:36 AM

Doesn't sound like a Franchise QB to me, like the majority of posters on this board are making him out to be. While Grads has overachieved for a 6th Round Pick he isn't a Franchise QB. But really does anyone in Tampa know what a Franchise QB looks like since we've never had one?

WHAT THE F are you talking about...Yeah look up some guy that played for us named Doug Williams(SB MVP)..he was followed by some guy named Steve Young(SB MVP)..followed by some guy named Vinny Testeverde(Heisman winner)...followed by some guy named Chris Chandler(SB runner-up)...followed by some guy named Brad Johnson(SB winner).So in 20 years we had 4 Super Bowl Quarterbacks...3 Super bowl winners..2 Super Bowl MVP's and 1 Hall of Famer. You new to Buccaneers football????

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#80 : November 30, 2006, 10:31:52 AM

Just remember the excuse of the year......HES JUST A ROOKIE.
Next year is will be....its just his second season in Gruden's system it usually takes three.

Even a rookie would show consistanct improvement. Bruce looks just as bad now as he did when he started his first game

umm you did watch the NO game didnt you? I'm pretty sure he looked good and drove us down the field in the waning minutes to take the lead. on the road.


And why in the world are we talking about a game that was 6 someodd weeks ago???

NO had no tape on the guy, had no idea what to expect, it was his first start. Yeah it was good...did you see the thanksgiving day game last week?

UT brought it up[and said he looked awful. I simply refuted it. And ya Grads looked bad during Tday. he's also looked bad during other games and alternately looked good during games.
And the whole game tape thing is lame excuse, if grads sucked he would have come out and bombed his first start. Does this mean he'll be good? or a perenial back up I have no idea, but he deserves more time before you make an assesment .

Ok, then, so how long should we give Grads 3 years because that is when most QB's hit their stride, is 3 years good?



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#81 : November 30, 2006, 10:32:53 AM

NO had no tape on the guy, had no idea what to expect, it was his first start. Yeah it was good...did you see the thanksgiving day game last week?

I'm sorry, it just doesn't work that way in the real world.

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#82 : November 30, 2006, 10:37:54 AM

Oh yeah I forgot! Yeah sorta like leinarts first couple starts right where he played well against the Chiefs and had the Bears beat, and oh yeah after teams get to figure a guy out they gameplan to his weakness on what he can and cannot do. Seriously what d-coordinator would think about doing someting like that, hilarious.........



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#83 : November 30, 2006, 10:38:15 AM

Ok, then, so how long should we give Grads 3 years because that is when most QB's hit their stride, is 3 years good?

CVille, it seems that you're being intentionally hardheaded.  We give Grads till the end of the year to show something more.  If he continues to progress, we feel better about him.  If not, well...we don't.  Regardless, we look for other options.  We make a run at Simms (or some other option), and we let them duke it out in training camp (or not).

I'm a HUGE Grads fan.  I'm HUGE Simms fan.  But Grads is playing.  Why not pull for him?

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#84 : November 30, 2006, 10:48:21 AM

I never advocated ever pulling Grads, no one time, ever....

Dal, so you say give Grads 2 years, that is fine. I def say this year and if we do not draft Quinn or Smith then he and simms (should he be back) battle it out.



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#85 : November 30, 2006, 10:49:26 AM

cvillebuc would have had the Colts dump Manning during his first year. Christ the dude threw 26 picks he must suck!

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#86 : November 30, 2006, 10:53:38 AM

Seriously Karl, Peyton Manning has huge upside, you wait on a guy like that. You can afford to wait on Carson Palmer because he has a HUGE upside. I don't think you can sit there and think oh well geez lets give our 6th rd QB time to grow when he lacks the natural ability of a Peyton Manning. Peyton Manning was the #1 overall pick, you wait on this guy give him time, you have money and a future invested in him. With Grads you have a 6th round flier pick and no money invested in Grads.

Its utterly ridiculous to draw any conclusion what so ever to Peyton Manning and waiting on him and waiting on Grads, its absurd.



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#87 : November 30, 2006, 11:02:43 AM

Seriously Karl, Peyton Manning has huge upside, you wait on a guy like that. You can afford to wait on Carson Palmer because he has a HUGE upside. I don't think you can sit there and think oh well geez lets give our 6th rd QB time to grow when he lacks the natural ability of a Peyton Manning. Peyton Manning was the #1 overall pick, you wait on this guy give him time, you have money and a future invested in him. With Grads you have a 6th round flier pick and no money invested in Grads.

Its utterly ridiculous to draw any conclusion what so ever to Peyton Manning and waiting on him and waiting on Grads, its absurd.

Unless you feel he has other abilities that he will grow into.  I would prefer that Grads get more time on the bench, even if we do believe he is the future, but that's not the case.  Hopefully, he will get something good out of this year's experience.

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#88 : November 30, 2006, 11:09:43 AM

And I hope the same thing! I hope Grads is the next great thing in the NFL, I'm just not as sold as some are. I am for Grads but I'm just dissenting in opinion of many here on the board and that fires people up. We will see, he has handful of games left and we will continue to get a good look as the season winds down. I'm just saying from what I have seen I can't see him being "the" guy at QB for the future. Maybe I'm wrong, I hope I am wrong...



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