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Boid Fink

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#105 : December 11, 2006, 09:25:04 PM

Buenning and Thomas.

Nice.


dbucfan

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#106 : December 11, 2006, 09:32:14 PM

And Davis as a back up for both Boid.  I could like that, I don't like the lack of quality or quality depth with the current line.  We are just too shalla.  Just made that bad joke up.  Sorry. 

Dal - nicely put. Thomas is not a hard case to make, seems like most everyone has him at the top of the class regardless of position. 

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

dbtb135

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#107 : December 12, 2006, 05:56:29 AM

What is the infatuation with Joe Thomas? He is not an elite LT prospect. Last year, when he was supposed to come out, he was projected to be a #10 to mid first round pick, BEFORE tearing up his knee. HE IS NOT WORTH A #3 PICK OVERALL. This is a weak draft class, compared to last year's, which is why he is rated so high. He's not even as good as D'Brickashaw and Brick went 4th. You do not reach on need. I don't care if he's projected to be a top 3 pick by the experts. You do not spend a pick that high on an OL, unless he is Tony Boselli incarnate. Joe Thomas is not even Paul Gruber. Plus, he's damaged goods with a bum knee. I'd rather sign Leonard Davis, who was the #2 overall pick and work with his skill set.

Yeah, players who stay for their senior year, play great, and are in a weaker draft class than last year SHOCKINGLY increase their draft position! Most juniors who go back and play well gain ground on the top draft position. Where do you think guys like Brohm, Russell, Lynch, Peterson, Baker will be projected if they pass (not likely) on the draft? We drafted Caddy who was also "damaged goods" and it worked out well until our offense imploded again. You make it sound like Thomas is hobbling around out there still in pain. He's recovered. He's playing great. He's above average in pass protection. And you're saying things like "he might end up as a LG or RT", "he might be a poor man's Jeff Backus". Yeah, he MIGHT turn out to be a bust. You could say that about everyone who's projected as top 10, many times over. But the fact is, he's played as well as just about anyone in college football. CJ has had down games. Ginn has had down games. Quinn has definitely had down games. Brohm had down games. Thomas, every time I've seen him, has been rock solid. You can't keep referencing a year old knee injury that he's clearly feeling no ill effects of, and a year old draft position as to why we shouldn't contemplate taking him NOW.

Even funnier is that you'd rather take a Leonard Davis who has PROVEN to be a bust than take a guy who has A CHANCE of being a bust. It's fine that you don't want to take the chance, but you don't improve positions by taking other people's busts because you're worrying about the possibility of your own.

ToddyBuc

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#108 : December 12, 2006, 05:00:26 PM

My upset picks of the week
Detriot beats Green Bay
Oakland beats St Louis

Bucs-Lightning already World Champions. Rays Next!!!

cvillebucfan

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#109 : December 12, 2006, 05:13:27 PM

I have seen Thomas play numerous times and he is literally a man amongst boys in there, check out his bowl game this year! D'Brickashaw is a great prospect as well but he lacked the bulk and in my estimation Joe Thomas is every bit the finesse player D'Brick is with more powerful upperbody and hand punch. Basically Thomas can plant you on the ground and can eliminate bull rushers and speed guys, both the same. He came to Wisc to play DE or TE, he is very athletic. Just wait until videos come out on Thomas and check those out...



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#110 : December 12, 2006, 07:50:28 PM

Name me all the guys who "overcompensate or any medical journal citation on that. ACL injuries aren't the bug-a-boo they used to be. It clearly isn't bothering him this year.

Right now, the most professional bunch out there, Scouts Inc, grades Thomas as a 95 (out of 100) and he's the highest rated player in this draft. There was nowhere he was 10-15 last year becuase the knock on D'Brick was run blocking and thomas doesn't have that same question really. As far as not dominant, I've seen 3 games this year and he owned the snot out of everyone he played both run and pass blocking. Don't know where you think he's a stiff:

"Possesses excellent height, long arms, big hands and adequate bulk. Still has room to add weight to his frame. He is extremely agile and athletic, especially for such a tall lineman. He displays good upper body power and a powerful hand punch. Gets set quickly in pass pro and stays very much under control. Rarely loses to speed off the edge. Stays balanced and shows the lateral mobility to work back inside versus athletic double moves."

"An excellent athlete for the position...Has outstanding feet...Great size with long arms...Very mobile and agile...Displays great balance and gets set quickly...Able to pull, slide and block in space...Still has the frame to bulk up and add some more weight...Technically sound, instinctive and very smart with top intangibles...Rare prospect who can legitimately play the crucial left tackle position at the pro level."

The guy was a TE and DE before LOT.

What in the hell do you have this jones for Leonard Davis (and BTW, put down the pipe our Davis blows chunks) who has been awful as an OL. Heck, AZ might have the only line worse than ours. Look how they've sucked the life out of Edge James.


I think Thomas is an excellent prospect. I just don’t think he’s top 3. He’s not Tony Boselli or Jonathan Ogden. Those are the types of OL who should be drafted that high. I’d take him between 6-10 since it is a weak year. The top 3 is for a franchise player, which he isn’t.

Think Anthony Davis is a stiff? He’s given up 5 sacks and 2 penalties all year. Walter Jones has given up 7.5 sacks and 2 penalties. Davis is not the problem. The problem is the LG spot when Buenning went down. Drafting Joe Thomas is the equivalent of drafting Adrian Peterson. Positional redundancy. We don’t need an OT that needs 3 years to develop. HOW MANY MORE DAMN PICKS ARE WE GOING TO THROW AT THE OL?!?

2006 – 1st and 2nd round
2005 – 3rd and 4th round
2004 – 3rd round
2003 – 4th round
2001 – 1 and 2nd round
2000 – 2 and 4th round

ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.

There have been plenty of players that have come back too fast from ACL tears, JERRY RICE being one, the most highly conditioned athlete in NFL history. In 1997, when Sapp blew out Rice’s ACL, he came back too fast and had a complete tear of his patella tendon and injured his other knee. Frank Gore blew out both ACLs. Terry Allen blew out both ACLs. Garrison Hearst. Jamal Anderson. Rod Woodson blew out his ACL and came back too soon and was never the same player again. ACL overcompensation is a common occurrence in sports. Google it.

Here is a pretty good article on the 2 year rule for ACL tears. 

http://www.footballdocs.com/RB_injury_rule.html

I like Thomas but not @ 3. He has a very high probability of tearing the same ACL again. He is as much of a risk as Eric Winston was and Winston dropped from Top 5 to the 3rd round. Winston had all the tools that Thomas has, he just didn't have a good rebound year.

I like Leonard Davis because he can be cheap and has all the tools to be a franchise tackle. Lincoln Kennedy was considered a major flop too, until Gruden got his hands on him...




dbucfan

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#111 : December 12, 2006, 08:14:54 PM

Shalla - gonna keep adding talent on the oline until they get it right.  Oline is the most important unit on a football team.  Until that is right the skill players are useless.

Thomas is the highest rated player coming out as of this moment.  You don't have to like it, but the kid is expected to be exactly the franchise type player as Ogden, Pace ...

Leonard Davis - no.  He is cheap.  The rest is unsupported hope at this point.

Anthony Davis continues to improve.  He is a team member, nobody cutting him.  If he got beat out, and I am certain Thomas would beat him out, he would be an excellent third tackle, and perhaps back up guard position as well.  Buenning is out for 10-12 months, it would be nice having AD next to Thomas. 

But most importantly, until this line gets to NFL average in both pass blocking and run blocking the draft choices and FAs will continue to be added, bc they have to be if this franchise is going to be successful over time.

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

shall555

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#112 : December 12, 2006, 08:26:54 PM

Shalla - gonna keep adding talent on the oline until they get it right. Oline is the most important unit on a football team. Until that is right the skill players are useless.

Thomas is the highest rated player coming out as of this moment. You don't have to like it, but the kid is expected to be exactly the franchise type player as Ogden, Pace ...

Leonard Davis - no. He is cheap. The rest is unsupported hope at this point.

Anthony Davis continues to improve. He is a team member, nobody cutting him. If he got beat out, and I am certain Thomas would beat him out, he would be an excellent third tackle, and perhaps back up guard position as well. Buenning is out for 10-12 months, it would be nice having AD next to Thomas.

But most importantly, until this line gets to NFL average in both pass blocking and run blocking the draft choices and FAs will continue to be added, bc they have to be if this franchise is going to be successful over time.

Grumble. Grumble. If we're picking @ 3. I've conceded that Thomas might be the selection, if we don't draft a franchise QB like Russell. If we didn't spend so many damn picks on OL, I wouldn't be that opposed to the idea. We've been snake bitten so many damn times. I just don't want another high pick wasted on an OL with a medical history like Colmer.

The likely scenario WOULD be to move Davis to LG since Buenning is gone and draft Thomas. If we're picking at #3 then this is the most likely scenario. We aren't going after Brady, we might not have a chance @ Johnson, because Oakland will steal him and we don't need Adrian Peterson. Thomas would be the only logical choice. If we picked @ 4 or 5, it would be defense and Gaines Adams. The wild card is Oakland. They might take Russell, instead of Brady, so either Brady or Johnson could drop. We'll see what happens.

dbucfan

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#113 : December 12, 2006, 08:33:16 PM

LOL, Russell is the only other one that it could be imho.  But it will either be OL or a franchise qb.  I would stick with the OL, but Gruden is talking about a franchise qb.  We will see.

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

magicfan39126

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#114 : December 12, 2006, 08:42:15 PM

What is the infatuation with Joe Thomas? He is not an elite LT prospect. Last year, when he was supposed to come out, he was projected to be a #10 to mid first round pick, BEFORE tearing up his knee. HE IS NOT WORTH A #3 PICK OVERALL. This is a weak draft class, compared to last year's, which is why he is rated so high. He's not even as good as D'Brickashaw and Brick went 4th. You do not reach on need. I don't care if he's projected to be a top 3 pick by the experts. You do not spend a pick that high on an OL, unless he is Tony Boselli incarnate. Joe Thomas is not even Paul Gruber. Plus, he's damaged goods with a bum knee. I'd rather sign Leonard Davis, who was the #2 overall pick and work with his skill set.

No offense but your totally wrong. Thomas is an incredible prospect, a better one than DBrick according to Scott Wright.


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#115 : December 12, 2006, 08:46:14 PM

Shalla - gonna keep adding talent on the oline until they get it right. Oline is the most important unit on a football team. Until that is right the skill players are useless.

Thomas is the highest rated player coming out as of this moment. You don't have to like it, but the kid is expected to be exactly the franchise type player as Ogden, Pace ...

Leonard Davis - no. He is cheap. The rest is unsupported hope at this point.

Anthony Davis continues to improve. He is a team member, nobody cutting him. If he got beat out, and I am certain Thomas would beat him out, he would be an excellent third tackle, and perhaps back up guard position as well. Buenning is out for 10-12 months, it would be nice having AD next to Thomas.

But most importantly, until this line gets to NFL average in both pass blocking and run blocking the draft choices and FAs will continue to be added, bc they have to be if this franchise is going to be successful over time.

Grumble. Grumble. If we're picking @ 3. I've conceded that Thomas might be the selection, if we don't draft a franchise QB like Russell. If we didn't spend so many damn picks on OL, I wouldn't be that opposed to the idea. We've been snake bitten so many damn times. I just don't want another high pick wasted on an OL with a medical history like Colmer.

The likely scenario WOULD be to move Davis to LG since Buenning is gone and draft Thomas. If we're picking at #3 then this is the most likely scenario. We aren't going after Brady, we might not have a chance @ Johnson, because Oakland will steal him and we don't need Adrian Peterson. Thomas would be the only logical choice. If we picked @ 4 or 5, it would be defense and Gaines Adams. The wild card is Oakland. They might take Russell, instead of Brady, so either Brady or Johnson could drop. We'll see what happens.

You always build from the lines out, always. This offense will succeed if and only if the o-line plays well. We don't have much talent at LT and Thomas has Walter Jones potential, Not only is LT our biggest need, and not only are great LTs few and far between but Thomas imo is the best player in this draft regardless of position.


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#116 : December 12, 2006, 08:50:08 PM

Agree Magic, only wild card would be Gruden and his franchise qb comment.  If it was my choice LOT intro next year would be Joe Thomas for the bucs.

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

dbtb135

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#117 : December 13, 2006, 03:03:51 AM

I like Thomas but not @ 3. He has a very high probability of tearing the same ACL again. He is as much of a risk as Eric Winston was and Winston dropped from Top 5 to the 3rd round. Winston had all the tools that Thomas has, he just didn't have a good rebound year.

I like Leonard Davis because he can be cheap and has all the tools to be a franchise tackle. Lincoln Kennedy was considered a major flop too, until Gruden got his hands on him...

Winston fell mostly because he played bad/was injured for his entire junior and senior seasons; what draft stock is usually based on. Where as Thomas had a very good year last year and a great year this year, only missing one half of a bowl game. Winston missed well over half a season and played somewhat badly his year coming back. Winston had the potential to be where Thomas is going to be too, maybe not as high, but still top 15 or so if he would have PLAYED like it. Tools only go so far. Plus, Winston's game is predicated on his athleticism and agility. The ACL injury is tougher on him than it is a guy who can also maul guys, which Winston could not.

Big Linc wasn't as bad for as long as Davis, and I have a tough time believing Gruden had a huge hand in turning him around.
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