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#30 : March 19, 2008, 02:54:16 PM

Again I will ask, because NOBODY has answered yet....

Who, besides the media, said that Gruden was an offensive guru/genius????  Well, I'm waiting.

The media is so stupid, for the most part, that they cannot fathom the idea that almost ANYONE could have had the #1 offense in Oakland at the time.

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#31 : March 19, 2008, 02:55:22 PM

That just about sums it up ^^^^^^

Poorly.


So Gruden wasn't brought here to improve the offense OR has he achieved it already.

Please no excuses just answer the question.

I think he was brought here to get that team over the hump to a SB. They did win a SB right? I'm pretty sure I wasn't dreaming about that trip to San Diego.


No excuses just answer the question.

Oh, so he should have just retired after 2002, and waited 5 years for his enshrinement into the Hall of Fame?

So I'll take that as you declaring defeat.
Defeat? Are you serious? Yup, you beat me..........I have been transformed into a Gruden jock sniffer....I have been transformed. Gruden has failed in my opinion.......end of story.

Oh, my bad. I didn't realize the battle was to change the minds of miserable people.  You won't mind if I don't bother paying attention as you jump from one point to the next willie nillie.

DYK, we have a college football forum... http://www.pewterreport.com/forum/index.php?board=5.0



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#32 : March 19, 2008, 02:56:24 PM

So who in here knows exactly WHAT the Glazer's plan was??  Were any of you there?  Did any of you take part in the meeting between Gruden and the Glazer's??

Nope, I didn't think so.

So none of you truly know what was said, you just think you do.

Stating what you think is fine, but don't come in here trying to pawn it off as fact.  It is THAT which is really stupid.

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#33 : March 19, 2008, 02:57:11 PM

Anyone that thinks the Glazer's master plan was bring Gruden here to "push the team over the top" and win the SB the following year is beyond stupid.  He was brought here to install and offense worthy of sharing the field with the stellar defense we already had.

I like Gruden but he has underachieved in the grand scale of things.  He isn�t alone, about 80-90% of the NFL underachieves on a regular basis.  The SB win was great and he deserves credit for it but at some point he needs to be judged on recent performances, and the excuses need to stop.

I'm sure a ton of idiots think I'm beyond stupid. Get in line.

DYK, we have a college football forum... http://www.pewterreport.com/forum/index.php?board=5.0

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#34 : March 19, 2008, 02:59:24 PM




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#35 : March 19, 2008, 03:02:06 PM

The SB win was great and he deserves credit for it but at some point he needs to be judged on recent performances, and the excuses need to stop.

^^bingo^^

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#36 : March 19, 2008, 03:03:28 PM

The SB win was great and he deserves credit for it but at some point he needs to be judged on recent performances, and the excuses need to stop.

^^bingo^^

If only that's where the discussion started.

DYK, we have a college football forum... http://www.pewterreport.com/forum/index.php?board=5.0

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#37 : March 19, 2008, 03:12:20 PM

veterans seem to like him alot


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#38 : March 19, 2008, 03:14:26 PM

Well, his team recently won their division. So that's a plus.

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#39 : March 19, 2008, 03:23:47 PM

The SB win was great and he deserves credit for it but at some point he needs to be judged on recent performances, and the excuses need to stop.

^^bingo^^
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^^^^^^^bulloney.  You know the reasons and circumstances - and choose to ignore them.  That doesn't make it true Hate.  Yes folks need to be judged - but fairly.  Everything that is known is not excuses - from trading picks, to injuries, to salary cap.  Folks that choose to ignore all of that in a rush to denigrate the HC and the GM are at the very least partially wrong or lacking in the ability to be unbiased.  If it were all that plain and simple all would get it right every time, never have an injury, never have a cap issue and win every time they make a deal.

And for MJS to state 80-90% of the NFL underachieves is equally unfair.  

American Heritage Dictionary - To perform worse or achieve less success than expected.

un'der·a·chieve'ment n., un'der·a·chiev'er n.  

SO following MJS's statement about the 80-90% underachievers - if 25.6 to 28.8 teams don't meet expectations then the statement could be given weight. But we know that more than 4-6 teams meet expectations so that can't be what he meant right?  Just sayin' folks...  

I am guessing the following eval by you guys -

2002 overachieved
2003 underachieved
2004 underachieved
2005 overachieved
2006 underachieved
2007 overachieved

Is that how we do it - 3 overs and 3 unders - a push - and where is it going now?  I suspect no one hit any of these on the head in preseason so we don't have a neutral category.  It must be over or under.  So is it a push?

How does the future look?  How about the present?  What happens if key players get hurt?  To any team - imagine a Brady-less NE team.  Does any of that factor in - of course - some is the nature and uncertainty of life in the NFL.  There are reasons - one can reject them, but they are still reasons - for either success or failure - err... underachieving or overachieving...

Just sayin' I think you guys are off base on this one.  But of course is it only my opinion...

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

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#40 : March 19, 2008, 03:24:43 PM

Big deal. A division Championship is nothing, ask Dallas.

I think all the division losers (and the Glazers) would disagree with that.

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#41 : March 19, 2008, 03:29:09 PM

Big deal. A division Championship is nothing, ask Dallas.

I think all the division losers (and the Glazers) would disagree with that.

I disagree with that as well.  Winning a division when .500 was considered a landmark improvement they would not reach this past year is important.  It is a step in the right direction.  It was young players making a stride forward and an impact in the league.  And moving forward or upward is the goal each year.  And that does lead to a Championship if all goes very right one year when a team is ready. 

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

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#42 : March 19, 2008, 03:31:56 PM

Anyone that thinks the Glazer's master plan was bring Gruden here to "push the team over the top" and win the SB the following year is beyond stupid.  He was brought here to install and offense worthy of sharing the field with the stellar defense we already had.

I like Gruden but he has underachieved in the grand scale of things.  He isn�t alone, about 80-90% of the NFL underachieves on a regular basis.  The SB win was great and he deserves credit for it but at some point he needs to be judged on recent performances, and the excuses need to stop.

I agree 100% but with the lack of draft picks, lack of money, and the price tag of Gruden, the Glazer knew the window was gonna close fast. And Mckay didn't help Gruden.....no I'm sorry the Bucs at all. Now its up to Gruden, Allen, and Kiffin to open it back up, which I have no doubt they are.

 
Big deal. A division Championship is nothing, ask Dallas.

Thats the stupidest thing I've heard in this entire thread.


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#43 : March 19, 2008, 03:35:07 PM

80-90% underachievers was up there Eric - ya gotta admit...

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

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#44 : March 19, 2008, 03:36:02 PM

FYI:

January 22, 2003...

Still, Dungy's fingerprints are all over Tampa Bay's defense.

"As Jon pointed out, we owe so much to Tony Dungy for turning this thing around," Buccaneers Pro Bowl safety John Lynch said. "We got ourselves to the Super Bowl, but it's not over yet.

"We're in it to win it."

Even so, it was Gruden who delivered that elusive first trip to the Super Bowl.

"Jon is just a dynamic guy," Lynch continued. "He gets the best out of guys and he does that by challenging you and he did that from the very first day.

"He challenged our defense. He said he had a ton of respect for what we had done, but he felt that we could be dominant and that's what we've done.

"I think this is one of the great defenses of all-time and I think we have a chance to cement that by winning the Super Bowl."

"He is the type of coach this organization and the players wanted," Buccaneers cornerback Ronde Barber added.

"We're a totally different team from last year," Buccaneers fullback Mike Alstott said. "We have a new coaching staff, different players, different system and you can't judge anything on the past.

"This team has been focused all the way. We've done a good job of sticking together with just about every sort of adversity hitting us in the face this year.

"We lost our opening game; we rallied back in a game to take it into overtime to lose. This team finds a way to fight for 60 minutes and you can't say anything about the character of this team."

Gruden's faith in quarterback Brad Johnson has proven to be the biggest difference offensively.

Case in point, the way Johnson outplayed Eagles counterpart Donovan McNabb, the NFL's highest-paid player, on Sunday.

Johnson completed 20-of-33 pass attempts for 259 yards and one touchdown with one interception.

By contrast, McNabb fumbled twice and wound up intercepted once.
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