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SunnyD

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#15 : March 26, 2008, 01:49:38 PM

Is it me or does it seem like the last 1st rounder will be drafted with the 19th pick and after that we're looking at glorified 2nd rounders?

Of course. If the Bucs drafted at #27, then the first rounders would run out at 26. If they drafted a #14, then we'd be all out of first rounders at 13 overall.
I'm not trying to intentionally be negative, if that is what you are suggesting.

Yeah, but you kind of diminish the QB and WR positions even though we know some team is going to draft one of if not all of those guys before we pick, especially the top two QBs. You make the situation appear more bleak than it truly is.
I did the research and referenced 15 players. Throw in Matt Ryan (only consensus top 20 QB), Keith Rivers (only consensus top 20 LB), one receiver (Sweed or Jackson), and one wild card, and you're through #19. Can anyone make the case Sam Baker, Kentwan Balmer, Chris Johnson, Justin King, etc., belong with the players I named?

20. DeSean Jackson



 ;)

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#16 : March 26, 2008, 02:07:39 PM

However you slice it, it's pretty clear the talent drops off within 2-3 picks ahead of the Bucs.

Sorry, but I can't agree. I'd be more than happy with Talib, Brohm, or Stewart if it played out that way, and to be honest i couldn't argue with Jackson or Sweed either.
I think it's very likely Talib, Stewart, one out of Sweed/Jackson, and mayeb Brohm are gone by #20.

And that's fine because two or three of the other guys in the "Top 20" would end up falling to us. Stewart, Brohm and Sweed aren't in the Top 20 in the rankings that I've seen, including the one that I posted. That where my point begins, there are more than just 19 players, more like 25.

I might also add that outside of the Elite 6 players, everyone else is hit or miss.

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#17 : March 26, 2008, 02:48:57 PM

Is it me or does it seem like the last 1st rounder will be drafted with the 19th pick and after that we're looking at glorified 2nd rounders? Take the running back positions - you have McFadden, Mendenhall, Stewart, and everyone else. At corner you have McKelvin, DRC, Talib, Jenkins, and everyone else. At tackle you have Long, Clady, Williams and everyone else. At end you have Long, Gholston, Harvey, and everyone else. At DT you have Dorsey, Ellis, and everyone else. It's arguable if there even is a 1st round receiver or quarterback. Linebacker and safety aren't even close to needs. All these players are going to be gone and we're looking at 'everyone else'.
One of the dumbest posts ever.


BREAKING NEWS: Due to the fact that there are only 19 first rounders, Roger Goodell has declared that the first round will end after the 19th selection, and has awarded Tampa Bay the first pick in round 2. Stay tuned for more news on this topic.

MBF

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#18 : March 26, 2008, 02:53:41 PM

Is it me or does it seem like the last 1st rounder will be drafted with the 19th pick and after that we're looking at glorified 2nd rounders?

Of course. If the Bucs drafted at #27, then the first rounders would run out at 26. If they drafted a #14, then we'd be all out of first rounders at 13 overall.
LOL

Feel Real Good

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#19 : March 26, 2008, 02:58:58 PM

Is it me or does it seem like the last 1st rounder will be drafted with the 19th pick and after that we're looking at glorified 2nd rounders? Take the running back positions - you have McFadden, Mendenhall, Stewart, and everyone else. At corner you have McKelvin, DRC, Talib, Jenkins, and everyone else. At tackle you have Long, Clady, Williams and everyone else. At end you have Long, Gholston, Harvey, and everyone else. At DT you have Dorsey, Ellis, and everyone else. It's arguable if there even is a 1st round receiver or quarterback. Linebacker and safety aren't even close to needs. All these players are going to be gone and we're looking at 'everyone else'.
One of the dumbest posts ever.


BREAKING NEWS: Due to the fact that there are only 19 first rounders, Roger Goodell has declared that the first round will end after the 19th selection, and has awarded Tampa Bay the first pick in round 2. Stay tuned for more news on this topic.
I'm sorry the concept of 1st round pick vs. 1st round talent was lost on you.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

SunnyD

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#20 : March 26, 2008, 03:10:47 PM

Is it me or does it seem like the last 1st rounder will be drafted with the 19th pick and after that we're looking at glorified 2nd rounders? Take the running back positions - you have McFadden, Mendenhall, Stewart, and everyone else. At corner you have McKelvin, DRC, Talib, Jenkins, and everyone else. At tackle you have Long, Clady, Williams and everyone else. At end you have Long, Gholston, Harvey, and everyone else. At DT you have Dorsey, Ellis, and everyone else. It's arguable if there even is a 1st round receiver or quarterback. Linebacker and safety aren't even close to needs. All these players are going to be gone and we're looking at 'everyone else'.
One of the dumbest posts ever.


BREAKING NEWS: Due to the fact that there are only 19 first rounders, Roger Goodell has declared that the first round will end after the 19th selection, and has awarded Tampa Bay the first pick in round 2. Stay tuned for more news on this topic.
I'm sorry the concept of 1st round pick vs. 1st round talent was lost on you.

I generally don't agree with you but you're whole topic whooshhheeed right over his head

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#21 : March 26, 2008, 03:15:10 PM

I think you make a good point FRG. Sorry you have to take so many slings and arrows over what is something you hear scouts telling reporters all the time.

The silver lining is that not everyone agrees who is in that 19 - I don't particularly rate Dan Conner highly, but over at Hashmarks an anonymous scout said his workout was "the most impressive" he's seen for an inside lb. could he go ahead of us? Probably not, but maybe. I don't see Jeff Otah mentioned by you, but a lot of teams reportedly love him.

SunnyD

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#22 : March 26, 2008, 03:17:03 PM

I think you make a good point FRG. Sorry you have to take so many slings and arrows over what is something you hear scouts telling reporters all the time.

The silver lining is that not everyone agrees who is in that 19 - I don't particularly rate Dan Conner highly, but over at Hashmarks an anonymous scout said his workout was "the most impressive" he's seen for an inside lb. could he go ahead of us? Probably not, but maybe. I don't see Jeff Otah mentioned by you, but a lot of teams reportedly love him.


Jeff Otah is solid but one draft I read (draft countdown I think) had Otah in the top 5   :o

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#23 : March 26, 2008, 03:17:19 PM

Is it me or does it seem like the last 1st rounder will be drafted with the 19th pick and after that we're looking at glorified 2nd rounders? Take the running back positions - you have McFadden, Mendenhall, Stewart, and everyone else. At corner you have McKelvin, DRC, Talib, Jenkins, and everyone else. At tackle you have Long, Clady, Williams and everyone else. At end you have Long, Gholston, Harvey, and everyone else. At DT you have Dorsey, Ellis, and everyone else. It's arguable if there even is a 1st round receiver or quarterback. Linebacker and safety aren't even close to needs. All these players are going to be gone and we're looking at 'everyone else'.
One of the dumbest posts ever.


BREAKING NEWS: Due to the fact that there are only 19 first rounders, Roger Goodell has declared that the first round will end after the 19th selection, and has awarded Tampa Bay the first pick in round 2. Stay tuned for more news on this topic.
I'm sorry the concept of 1st round pick vs. 1st round talent was lost on you.
The topic is absolutely stupid. Is every year when you supposed draft experts throw around these dumb ideas. 1st round talent, is the 32 best players in the Country. They may not all be drafted in round 1, but that doesn't mean they aren't one of the 32 best.  I guess Brady wasn't 1st round talent? Tanard Jackson wasn't 1st round talent? Hmmmmm, Frank Gore?

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#24 : March 26, 2008, 03:24:49 PM

I have faith and trust in general management to acquire the best players available.  8)




SunnyD

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#25 : March 26, 2008, 03:28:31 PM

Is it me or does it seem like the last 1st rounder will be drafted with the 19th pick and after that we're looking at glorified 2nd rounders? Take the running back positions - you have McFadden, Mendenhall, Stewart, and everyone else. At corner you have McKelvin, DRC, Talib, Jenkins, and everyone else. At tackle you have Long, Clady, Williams and everyone else. At end you have Long, Gholston, Harvey, and everyone else. At DT you have Dorsey, Ellis, and everyone else. It's arguable if there even is a 1st round receiver or quarterback. Linebacker and safety aren't even close to needs. All these players are going to be gone and we're looking at 'everyone else'.
One of the dumbest posts ever.


BREAKING NEWS: Due to the fact that there are only 19 first rounders, Roger Goodell has declared that the first round will end after the 19th selection, and has awarded Tampa Bay the first pick in round 2. Stay tuned for more news on this topic.
I'm sorry the concept of 1st round pick vs. 1st round talent was lost on you.
The topic is absolutely stupid. Is every year when you supposed draft experts throw around these dumb ideas. 1st round talent, is the 32 best players in the Country. They may not all be drafted in round 1, but that doesn't mean they aren't one of the 32 best.  I guess Brady wasn't 1st round talent? Tanard Jackson wasn't 1st round talent? Hmmmmm, Frank Gore?


That opens a completely new can of worms.

If we would have picked Tanard Jackson at 4 last year would that have been a good pick? A good VALUE pick?

Sure Hindsight is 20/20, in reality Tanard Jackson probably should have gone higher than Reggie Nelson and Brandon Meriweather.

But would he have been good value at #4 knowing we could get him 3 rounds later?

Thats questionable

Feel Real Good

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#26 : March 26, 2008, 03:38:34 PM

Is it me or does it seem like the last 1st rounder will be drafted with the 19th pick and after that we're looking at glorified 2nd rounders? Take the running back positions - you have McFadden, Mendenhall, Stewart, and everyone else. At corner you have McKelvin, DRC, Talib, Jenkins, and everyone else. At tackle you have Long, Clady, Williams and everyone else. At end you have Long, Gholston, Harvey, and everyone else. At DT you have Dorsey, Ellis, and everyone else. It's arguable if there even is a 1st round receiver or quarterback. Linebacker and safety aren't even close to needs. All these players are going to be gone and we're looking at 'everyone else'.
One of the dumbest posts ever.


BREAKING NEWS: Due to the fact that there are only 19 first rounders, Roger Goodell has declared that the first round will end after the 19th selection, and has awarded Tampa Bay the first pick in round 2. Stay tuned for more news on this topic.
I'm sorry the concept of 1st round pick vs. 1st round talent was lost on you.
The topic is absolutely stupid. Is every year when you supposed draft experts throw around these dumb ideas. 1st round talent, is the 32 best players in the Country. They may not all be drafted in round 1, but that doesn't mean they aren't one of the 32 best.  I guess Brady wasn't 1st round talent? Tanard Jackson wasn't 1st round talent? Hmmmmm, Frank Gore?
Your point is taken that not all players turn out as expected, but what are we supposed to do, not talk about any prospects until they've been in the league 3+ years and we can really evaluate them? It's an inexact science, but this is what we know/think now. In 3 years we can see how smart everyone really is. Brady wasn't 1st round talent when he was drafted. He made himself into 1st round talent later. As far as Jackson goes, he turned out great but there usually isn't more than one free safety rated as 1st round talent, and T-Jax isn't quite in the Reggie Nelson type league so I see him as 2nd round talent, which ironically is where all the amateur draftniks had him rated. Regarding Gore, he may have had 1st round upside, but he wasn't a 1st round package due to the injury concerns.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

bradentonian

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#27 : March 26, 2008, 03:43:10 PM

Will be interesting to see who is on the board; there are always a few headscratchers and wildcards in the first round, so we might get lucky.  If we could trade back and get two solid 2nd rounders or a 2nd and a proven vet it would probably be worth it also.


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#28 : March 26, 2008, 03:53:50 PM

I think you make a good point FRG. Sorry you have to take so many slings and arrows over what is something you hear scouts telling reporters all the time.

The silver lining is that not everyone agrees who is in that 19 - I don't particularly rate Dan Conner highly, but over at Hashmarks an anonymous scout said his workout was "the most impressive" he's seen for an inside lb. could he go ahead of us? Probably not, but maybe. I don't see Jeff Otah mentioned by you, but a lot of teams reportedly love him.


Not sure Conner is a fit for the Bucs

Happy and Peppy and Bursting with love.

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#29 : March 26, 2008, 04:03:17 PM

Is it me or does it seem like the last 1st rounder will be drafted with the 19th pick and after that we're looking at glorified 2nd rounders? Take the running back positions - you have McFadden, Mendenhall, Stewart, and everyone else. At corner you have McKelvin, DRC, Talib, Jenkins, and everyone else. At tackle you have Long, Clady, Williams and everyone else. At end you have Long, Gholston, Harvey, and everyone else. At DT you have Dorsey, Ellis, and everyone else. It's arguable if there even is a 1st round receiver or quarterback. Linebacker and safety aren't even close to needs. All these players are going to be gone and we're looking at 'everyone else'.
One of the dumbest posts ever.


BREAKING NEWS: Due to the fact that there are only 19 first rounders, Roger Goodell has declared that the first round will end after the 19th selection, and has awarded Tampa Bay the first pick in round 2. Stay tuned for more news on this topic.
I'm sorry the concept of 1st round pick vs. 1st round talent was lost on you.
The topic is absolutely stupid. Is every year when you supposed draft experts throw around these dumb ideas. 1st round talent, is the 32 best players in the Country. They may not all be drafted in round 1, but that doesn't mean they aren't one of the 32 best. I guess Brady wasn't 1st round talent? Tanard Jackson wasn't 1st round talent? Hmmmmm, Frank Gore?
Your point is taken that not all players turn out as expected, but what are we supposed to do, not talk about any prospects until they've been in the league 3+ years and we can really evaluate them? It's an inexact science, but this is what we know/think now. In 3 years we can see how smart everyone really is. Brady wasn't 1st round talent when he was drafted. He made himself into 1st round talent later. As far as Jackson goes, he turned out great but there usually isn't more than one free safety rated as 1st round talent, and T-Jax isn't quite in the Reggie Nelson type league so I see him as 2nd round talent, which ironically is where all the amateur draftniks had him rated. Regarding Gore, he may have had 1st round upside, but he wasn't a 1st round package due to the injury concerns.
Which is why most of the draftniks get on my last nerve. The draft is an inexact science, and is a crap shoot. Yet listen to yourself, and many others who claim to be draftniks, and you all talk in absolutes.

Someone suggests a draft pick scenario, and 5 minutes later there are 15 posts stating how that is absurd, or how this player will be a bust, or how this player isn't worth the pick they're suggested to be picked. It's not absolute, not concrete. Yet I can envision some of you sticking out your chests bashing others suggestions as you type. There probably will be more than 19 very good players out of the almost two hundred and a half or so drafted.
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