next year, when Gruden rights the ship...

[tonyflash]

It's not even the fact that the "rookies" aren't dominating, they are getting progressively worse each week. Heck even Caddy is doing things he didn't do last year, and we all know about Michael Clayton, no matter what you will never convince me that this isn't the time for Gruden to go.

Please stand in line behind the Steelers fans who wanted to fire Bill Cowher before he won the Super Bowl. It's not always about the coach. There are many other factors in winning and losing.

[umguy1999]

The fact is Gruden has admitted that HE has changed some of his ways, which would support some of the claims of the Gruden haters. I will never be head over heals for Gruden, I dislike our system and think its boring and not effective against a decent defense and without a good defense supporting it, but as long as we are winning I am happy with the coach, that does not mean that I am on any coach's bandwagon. I am a Buc's fan and always have been, It sounds like you are a Gruden fan first then a Buc's fan.
Some people hate Gruden to a point that a Buc's loss is a good thing to them, and some people see a Buc's win as a Gruden win first. Neither of those Groups are true fans IMO.

[Bayfisher]

I am a Buc's fan and always have been, It sounds like you are a Gruden fan first then a Buc's fan.

Is this the Gruden basher motto?

btw, props to TURBO. Great thread

[graypilgrim]

Here are a couple of questions that beg answering:

Who is responsible when there are 12 men on the field after coming out of a time out?
Who is responsible for false starts, blown assignments and dropped passes?
Who is responsible for playing the above mentioned play killers?
Who is responsible for 15 yards of offense in a half?

The answer is "coaching staff". We are all quick to give the defense and defensive coaching staff kudos and praise (deservidly so) but why are we so quick to overlook deficiencies on the offensive side?

I think this is a legitimate question that needs an answer, not a bunch of excuses.

Whose responsible for 7-4? No excuses...

Are you that comfortable with this 7-4?  Could have been 9-2 or better, then again we came close to 5-6.
An old mentor of mine used to love to say "If the student has not learned, the teacher has not taught." 

[Bucs Capacitor]

Here are a couple of questions that beg answering:

Who is responsible when there are 12 men on the field after coming out of a time out?
Who is responsible for false starts, blown assignments and dropped passes?
Who is responsible for playing the above mentioned play killers?
Who is responsible for 15 yards of offense in a half?

The answer is "coaching staff". We are all quick to give the defense and defensive coaching staff kudos and praise (deservidly so) but why are we so quick to overlook deficiencies on the offensive side?

I think this is a legitimate question that needs an answer, not a bunch of excuses.

Whose responsible for 7-4? No excuses...

Are you that comfortable with this 7-4? 

Yes.  Why?  Because just like how it could be 9-2, it could also very well be 0-11.  We're playing good football right now.  Like an old mentor of mine used to say "Quit yer **CENSORED**in'."

[MiltonMack21]

Well, it is a bit more difficult than just saying it. However I can point to many things on this team that show the regression. Now let me preface this by saying I was a big Gruden supporter until the Cowboys game and then it all hit me. Gruden was so happy when Simms got injured so he could have his boy Gradkowski in there. Now as we can tell Gradkowski isn't very good. Gruden's ego got the best of him, by making him believe he could turn a Yugo into a Mercedes Benz. The offense is even worse this year (30th) than it was last year (NO INJURY EXCUSES remember Gruden got his boy in there at QB). Every team has injuries some deal with them. Jon Gruden doesn't. I can point out Caddilac, Michael Clayton, Anthony Davis, Alex Smith and the not so obvious Sean Mahan. I will also point out that the defense has gone south in one year mind you. Will Allen, Jermaine Phillips (Who Gruden thought would replace Lynch), Torrie Cox, Barret Ruud, Ryan Nece are playing significantly worse than they did last year (Maybe this has something to do with Tomlin, Morris and Marineli not being here, but again this falls on Gruden). Now when Gruden won the superbowl his ego allowed him to believe he was the main reason and he ran some of the guys out of town. It has been proven with 3 out of 4 losing season (ones where we aren't even respectable) that his way doesn't work. I am not a fan of Gruden I am a fan of the Buccaneers. At this point I feel like people who are defending Gruden are more Gruden fans than anything, which is fine. But in my opinion we will never again be a winner as long as he is here.

This whole "ego" thing is really a far out opinion that seems to have been manufactured with little substance to back it up.

Does Gruden have an "EGO"  most certainly everyone  does.. However, it total absurdity to suggest that anything other than WINNING is most important to him..   Absolutely ridiculous.  They guy is a competitor beyond belief and would sell his mother if it meant another W..  Truthfully the ego thing is far more appropriate with Dungy and McKay.. why were Green and Anthony kept so long how about Walker?   How about Dungy refusing to hire a competent OC?   Now that is misplaced "EGO"  Who controls the offense at Indy?  It certainly isn't Dungy!


Oh and the last time I looked 7-4 represented a WINNING record.. Now that could change but to state that this is not a winner is most peculiar response.

I was talking about him needing to change his ways and that his way is not always the correct way. he has changed, with the exception of firing his offensive staff who weren't getting it done. I have only seen improvement in the offensive line area and that cannot be a reflection of Muir. I still say that everyone on the offensive side of the ball needs to be fired with the exception of Kromer.

I still say that everyone on the offensive side of the ball needs to be fired with the exception of Kromer.

You're still saying things? I doubt anyones listening anymore

[graypilgrim]

Here are a couple of questions that beg answering:

Who is responsible when there are 12 men on the field after coming out of a time out?
Who is responsible for false starts, blown assignments and dropped passes?
Who is responsible for playing the above mentioned play killers?
Who is responsible for 15 yards of offense in a half?

The answer is "coaching staff". We are all quick to give the defense and defensive coaching staff kudos and praise (deservidly so) but why are we so quick to overlook deficiencies on the offensive side?

I think this is a legitimate question that needs an answer, not a bunch of excuses.

Whose responsible for 7-4? No excuses...

Are you that comfortable with this 7-4? 

Yes.  Why?  Because just like how it could be 9-2, it could also very well be 0-11.  We're playing good football right now.  Like an old mentor of mine used to say "Quit yer **CENSORED**in'."

No, not **CENSORED**in but I would rather be 9-2 and have a better playing team (on offense).
What I do not understand is why some here seem to gloss over the inadequencies of the offense? We get a massive 15 yards in a half and we console ourselves with "at least he did not turn the ball over". Am I the only one troubled by this?
I would love to see us run roughshod through the NFC but there are some teams out there that scare me and why can't we be one of those teams for a change?
No, not **CENSORED**in, just dreaming.

[4bucs]

when we add  a rb to go with Graham...a wr to go with Galloway another DE for depth... a stud DT ... and  VET qb to back up...we may already have him if Simms gets healthy ...he may be a lot different qb working with the shotgun...or who knows maybe Plummer will wake up and join the team....Garcia...Plummer and Simms...with our NEW OL and a good running game those qbs would do just fine...and with a stud DT THIS DEE WILL BE DOWN RIGHT SCARY....hell we'll be the talk of the NFL not Dallas.

[drywallbuc]

plummer is a flake, how many times have we seen him throw a game away. hes nowhere the QB everyone seems to think he is. i liken him to rex grossman. maybe we can get rex too, that way we can sit around griping about how simms would look now, shotgun or no. plummer had one of the best OL's to work behind and still failed. bigger the game, flakier he got. but what do i know i wanted gus ferotte(sp) before he became head butt the wall king.

[graypilgrim]

when we add  a rb to go with Graham...a wr to go with Galloway another DE for depth... a stud DT ... and  VET qb to back up...we may already have him if Simms gets healthy ...he may be a lot different qb working with the shotgun...or who knows maybe Plummer will wake up and join the team....Garcia...Plummer and Simms...with our NEW OL and a good running game those qbs would do just fine...and with a stud DT THIS DEE WILL BE DOWN RIGHT SCARY....hell we'll be the talk of the NFL not Dallas.

I can live with this very nicely.

[Bucs Capacitor]

No, not **CENSORED**in but I would rather be 9-2 and have a better playing team (on offense).
What I do not understand is why some here seem to gloss over the inadequencies of the offense? We get a massive 15 yards in a half and we console ourselves with "at least he did not turn the ball over". Am I the only one troubled by this?
I would love to see us run roughshod through the NFC but there are some teams out there that scare me and why can't we be one of those teams for a change?
No, not **CENSORED**in, just dreaming.

I see your point.  There is room for concern...but that's because our QB who has been the difference maker all year has gone down.  And when the back-up came in and got us 15 yds, was I happy?  No.  However, we did win that game.  It could have been different, but it wasn't- we got the W.  Why?  Because Grads didn't turn the ball over (thank God he at least did that) and our defense stepped up.  I haven't seen that since out Super Bowl year when Brad Johnson went down and we had to survive with Rob Johnson as our QB.  That's why I'm not sweating a 7-4 record.  Yes, it could be 9-2.  But think about if we had to deal with Grads EVERY game.  I am thankful, because most did not even have us over .500 this year.  I really think this team has gotten even better than they were in the first half.  In my mind, we just have to survive without Jeff, and we can make some noise.

[graypilgrim]

No, not **CENSORED**in but I would rather be 9-2 and have a better playing team (on offense).
What I do not understand is why some here seem to gloss over the inadequencies of the offense? We get a massive 15 yards in a half and we console ourselves with "at least he did not turn the ball over". Am I the only one troubled by this?
I would love to see us run roughshod through the NFC but there are some teams out there that scare me and why can't we be one of those teams for a change?
No, not **CENSORED**in, just dreaming.

I see your point.  There is room for concern...but that's because our QB who has been the difference maker all year has gone down.  And when the back-up came in and got us 15 yds, was I happy?  No.  However, we did win that game.  It could have been different, but it wasn't- we got the W.  Why?  Because Grads didn't turn the ball over (thank God he at least did that) and our defense stepped up.  I haven't seen that since out Super Bowl year when Brad Johnson went down and we had to survive with Rob Johnson as our QB.  That's why I'm not sweating a 7-4 record.  Yes, it could be 9-2.  But think about if we had to deal with Grads EVERY game.  I am thankful, because most did not even have us over .500 this year.  I really think this team has gotten even better than they were in the first half.  In my mind, we just have to survive without Jeff, and we can make some noise.

I am quite happy to eat some crow this fine Monday. Now, let's dominate the playoffs!!!!!

[MBF]

I hope you "fans" are enjoying this year.

Go Bucs.