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king_frog

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#45 : April 08, 2008, 12:27:14 PM

Sorry UFOJoe,
But these are the facts. These rats are not going away...We need to do all that we can to get the bad guy's !! The patriot act is a tool to help accomplish this !!

Morgan

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#46 : April 08, 2008, 12:47:31 PM

Problem w/ the Patriot Act is that the Repubs will use the power to investigate their political opponents instead of bad guy Al Qaeda.

Can't trust those slimy politicians (ie. Larry Craig, Mark Foley) -

But I'm all for the Patriot Act if it means we can protect the citizens of the USA.

 More power to them.

John Galt?

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#47 : April 08, 2008, 12:50:32 PM

Not really sure what frog is talking about.  As I remember the Patriot Act was made permanent 2 years ago.

Congress Renews Patriot Act


WASHINGTON, March 8, 2006

CBS/AP) The House renewed the USA Patriot Act in a cliffhanger vote Tuesday night, extending a centerpiece of the war on terrorism at President Bush's urging after months of political combat over the balance between privacy rights and the pursuit of potential terrorists.

The renewal makes permanent almost all the new powers the FBI got just after 9/11 to make it easier to track down terrorists, including the ability to conduct secret searches, tap into e-mail and demand sweeping personal information from hospitals, hotels and bookstores, reports CBS' Bob Fuss.

Mr. Bush, forced by filibuster to accept new curbs on law enforcement investigations, is expected to sign the legislation before 16 provisions of the 2001 law expire on Friday.

The vote was 280-138, just two more than needed under special rules that required a two-thirds majority. The close vote caught senior Republican aides in both chambers by surprise.

Nonetheless, the vote marked a political victory for Mr. Bush and will allow congressional Republicans facing midterm elections this year to continue touting a tough-on-terror stance. Mr. Bush's approval ratings have suffered in recent months after revelations that he had authorized secret, warrantless wiretapping of Americans.

That issue helped fuel a two-month Senate filibuster that forced the White House to accept some new restrictions on information gathered in terrorism probes.

Republicans on Tuesday declared the legislative war won, saying the renewal of the act's 16 provisions along with new curbs on government investigatory power will help law enforcement prevent terrorists from striking.

"Intense congressional and public scrutiny has not produced a single substantiated claim that the Patriot Act has been misused to violate Americans' civil liberties," said House Judiciary Committee Chairman James Sensenbrenner, R-Wis. "Opponents of the legislation have relied upon exaggeration and hyperbole to distort a demonstrated record of accomplishment and success."



Looks like Big Brother won a couple years ago.

I guess I have to be carefull what I email and which books I buy.  Don't want to disappear to Gitmo.

Seriously, does this "...demand sweeping personal information from hospitals, hotels and bookstores..." bug anyone else.  How does knowing what I read prevent terrorism?


king_frog

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#48 : April 08, 2008, 01:00:23 PM

John,
It came up for a vote to continue, but congress being busy with who knows what ( steroids, reports on how much damage cow excretion does to the ozone ect.. ) They never got to it before Easter break. But I'm sure it will come up again.
The patriot act is not perfect, but right now it is the best that we have.
The Bush haters remind me of the Gruden haters, neither can do anything right. Both make mistakes and it is right to point them out.
However the patriot act has much more of an upside than a down side. 

John Galt?

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#49 : April 08, 2008, 01:21:12 PM

King_frog, do you have a link to that?  Everything I've seen indicates the Pat. Act was made permanent in '06.  Now I do recall some debate regarding funding related to the Pat. Act,  but not changes or renewals of the Act itself.


The White Tiger

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#50 : April 08, 2008, 02:00:31 PM

Here's a link to the discussion on wikipedia - not that is the last word - we all know the reliability of Wiki. But it does consolidate searches and help start searches on subjects - so I usually start here when looking into subjects.

I think frog may have been a bit confused about this program - it has been set up for Re-Authorization periods. Congress absolutely drug it's feet during the last re-auth and made some fundamental changes - but the buld of the Act is in place through 2009...whereupon it is scheduled to be reviewed

 "The first act reauthorized all but two of the provisions of Title II that would have expired. Two sections were changed to sunset on December 31, 2009: section 206 — the roving wiretap provision — and section 215, which allowed access to business records under FISA. Section 215 was amended further regardless so as to give greater judicial oversight and review. Such orders were also restricted to be authorized by only the FBI Director, the FBI Deputy Director, or the Executive Assistant Director for National Security, and minimization procedures were specified to limit the dissemination and collection of such information. Section 215 also had a "gag" provision, which was changed to allow the defendant to contact their Attorney.[171] However, the change also meant that the defendant was also made to tell the FBI who they were disclosing the order to — this requirement was removed by the USA PATRIOT Act Additional Reauthorizing Amendments Act.[172]"

Reauthorization periods were established for different segments of the Patriot Act and congress implemented greater congressional oversight of the act. We should all feel much safer now...

Th Patriot Act is a neccessary piece of legislation - much like RICO which is also routinely abused by law enforcement and various extra government agencies that seek to use government to exert pressure on political rivals. The Abortion Rights folks and the ACLU used the RICO act to shut down civil disobediance initiative used by Anti-Abortion groups. The government went after anti-abortion groups that were peacefully protesting. I personally watched law enforcement harrass protestors. They intimidated those who simply picketed abortion clinincs by literally twisting and breaking arms, beating protesters. Arrests and jailing without trials and generally intimidating these folks from their lawful right to assemble and to speak out. Truly I can tell you government is the enemy of the people - especially when government uses it's concentrated power to protect the people, from the people. Some acts are neccessary - and should all sunset. It does not benefit the government and law enforcement to sunset laws. Therefore the people must keep the pressure up or they will find themselves in a tyranny. The Patriot act will most definitely be usd against Christians in the very near future - unfortunately it is a very neccessary optiion in the war on global terror.

I think frog may have mistaken the decision by congress to not rule before their recess  on continuation of the FISA court. This shut down opportunities for law enforcement to go after terror suspects for the recess period. It was a show of force by the democrats. Hopefully it didn't hinder us globally - but who will ever know?


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king_frog

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#51 : April 08, 2008, 02:09:59 PM

Buc Buckeye,
Thanks for the clarification. I knew that certain parts needed to be acted on. I was reading about this in an article flying back from Denver. It is amazing that todays press tends to overlook these important issues.
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