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ufojoe

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« #180 : April 20, 2008, 09:35:43 PM »

OK I guess I am getting where Joe and McCaddy are coming from...  In anticipation of the WTC being hit by airlines some "group" was able to plant bombs in both buildings so they would come down decisively.  Correct?

That group could have been any number of people.

If that was what this discussion is about does it really make difference?

Yes, it does. Especially since we don't know who that group is and who they report to.

I certainly could understand the US govt not wanting to face further embarrassment for
allowing such a thing to happen.

Well, if it was just terrorists who planted bombs and thermite, then don't you think the
American people (and especially the family members) deserve to know the truth? And
if it IS the truth, what does that tell you about all of the people who attacked the
independent researchers who have said that the towers and WTC had to have been
"assisted" down with explosions? No, this is important no matter who placed the
alleged explosives and thermite.

Now, if the group was a rogue group of Americans or a group that answered to
certain people within the military/industrial complex, then it's HUGE aspect of
the story, of course.

Doobie, you can try to blur the debate by posting stuff from other 911 researchers
but we're focusing on engineers and architects within the AE911 group. Go write
them and tell them how crazy they are.

I don't think the mainstreamers are crazy. I just think they start with the assumption
that an alternative explanation is impossible and they begin their studies based on
that assumption.

doobiedoright

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« #181 : April 21, 2008, 10:45:02 AM »

As I suspected,you wont answer. By the way most of the people @ that place are frauds.
Saw where someone checked and maybe 20% of them are real!
Anybody can go there and put ufo joe masters in engerning and no one will know the diff!


ufojoe

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« #182 : April 21, 2008, 11:01:04 AM »

20% are real? Meaning they're make believe? Or what?

Back that up with some evidence...

http://www.ae911truth.org/supporters.php?g=_AES_

Runole

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« #183 : April 21, 2008, 11:02:59 AM »

I tend to side with Doobie on this as well as many of assertions concerning things taken out of context -  THEY ARE "PURE GOLD" to the conspiracy buffs. Reality is there are mostly pathetic grasping at straws to create a conspiracy.  Understand I am quite distrustful of the US concerning many things but not the WTC.  The internet certainly is filled with frauds and I think we all can be duped at times.

Personally, I have extreme doubts that any master plan was in place to destroy the WTC towers before the airlines did there deed.

Really the whole thing appears quite simplistic but very effective concerning US policy of airlines taken over by terrorists.

That to me is why the whole anti - terror stuff is just a bunch of ineffective blather to placate the masses into believing the US Govt can actually protect them.   

Seriously, does anyone believe another airline will be commandeered into another Skyscraper with what we know now?   Too much closing of the barn -doors after the cows have left.  Not denying that there could be future terrorist attacks but it won't be by an airline being commandeered.

Runole

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« #184 : April 21, 2008, 11:09:17 AM »

20% are real? Meaning they're make believe? Or what?

Back that up with some evidence...

http://www.ae911truth.org/supporters.php?g=_AES_



That certainly appears to be be a massive list and now I am on the fence again.   :D ;D ::)


Seems that is an awful lot of "nutjobs"??? that are into questioning the reasoning behind the collapse.

ufojoe

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« #185 : April 21, 2008, 11:14:18 AM »

I tend to side with Doobie on this as well as many of assertions concerning things taken out of context -  THEY ARE "PURE GOLD" to the conspiracy buffs. Reality is there are mostly pathetic grasping at straws to create a conspiracy.  Understand I am quite distrustful of the US concerning many things but not the WTC.  The internet certainly is filled with frauds and I think we all can be duped at times.

Personally, I have extreme doubts that any master plan was in place to destroy the WTC towers before the airlines did there deed.

Doesn't matter what you believe or what I believe. The AE911 folks have presented the evidence. So, attack the
evidence instead of focusing on whether or not you feel a certain theory is crazy or not. Trust me, I have gone back and forth over the years on whether or not any of this makes any sense and if any of it is possible. Or is it just my cynicism?
The AE911 group pushed me over the top that the official story on the WTC buildings is inaccurate.

And the AE911 folks are not conspiracy buffs or conspiracy theorists. The top people on that site are professional
engineers and architects and they have a major problem with how those buildings allegedly came down.

You're jumping the gun when you try to figure out who did what or what somebody would do something. If the
evidence points towards explosives being in the buildings, then go from there. If you haven't looked at the
evidence that the AE911 people have presented then just say so. If you have and don't agree with it, then
say so. But to throw out the conspiracy buff/theorist word is not addressing the evidence.

(I wrote this before your last post. I suggest you take a look at the AE911 video, Runole)

http://www.911blogger.com/node/10025

Yes, it's long (2 Hours) but this is an important subject for the history of our country. That's
an understatement!

doobiedoright

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« #186 : April 21, 2008, 05:03:46 PM »

Fire alone has never brought down a building. 

To believe that our government has been COMPLETELY honest in regards to 9/11 is ridiculous.


oppp     somebody just got proved wrong!
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080421/ap_on_re_us/building_fire

 PHILADELPHIA - A seven-alarm fire has been brought under control in Philadelphia after reducing a four-story warehouse to rubble and threatening neighboring homes.
ADVERTISEMENT

Authorities report no injuries at the blaze in northeast Philadelphia. Flames and smoke had been visible for miles after the fire started before 3 a.m.

Several nearby homes were evacuated because flying embers had threatened to set roofs on fire, but firefighters say they were able to keep the flames from spreading to those structures.

Power is reported out to several hundred customers in the area as crews continue to pour water on remaining flames.


ufojoe

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« #187 : April 21, 2008, 08:16:42 PM »

Fire alone has never brought down a building. 

To believe that our government has been COMPLETELY honest in regards to 9/11 is ridiculous.

oppp     somebody just got proved wrong!
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080421/ap_on_re_us/building_fire

PHILADELPHIA - A seven-alarm fire has been brought under control in Philadelphia after reducing a four-story warehouse to rubble and threatening neighboring homes.

Come on, Doobie. The argument is that fire had not brought down a steel-framed building before. You can say
that fire AND the damage from the planes brought it down but don't refer to a warehouse in Philly as your
comparison.



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« #188 : April 21, 2008, 09:19:16 PM »

What other steel framed buildings have been hit by commercial jetliners?

ufojoe

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« #189 : April 21, 2008, 09:26:18 PM »

What other steel framed buildings have been hit by commercial jetliners?

See my post. Already covered.

You can say that fire AND the damage from the planes brought it down

doobiedoright

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« #190 : April 22, 2008, 10:43:32 AM »

20% are real? Meaning they're make believe? Or what?

Back that up with some evidence...

http://www.ae911truth.org/supporters.php?g=_AES_





From a friend of mine..................


 An analysis of the Scholars for 9/11 T&J's absurd & questionable member roster
I decided to do my own analysis of the roster for the members of Scholars for 9/11 Truth and Justice.

-Of the approximately 600 names on Scholars’ roster, only 169 members list the university they’re affiliated with (by my count). 31 of these 169 are current students. The other approximately 72% either explicitly list n.a. when it comes to degree and university affiliation, or state that they have a degree but don’t list the university, making it impossible to verify anything at all about them.

-Of the 28% who do affiliate themselves with a university, approximately 50% explicitly list the field/industry for their degree as something entirely unrelated to anything relevant to investigating 9/11 by any stretch of the imagination, such as Dental Assistant, Video Animation, Fashion Merchandising. Of the remaining 50%, many have degrees in questionably-related fields such as theology or history, while still more do not list what their Ph.D. or B.A. is in, leaving us to guess.

-Of the roughly 600 members, 35 associate themselves with some field of engineering. Of these 35, only 24 list the university in which they received their degree. This doesn’t necessarily discredit the other 11, it just makes it impossible to verify their affiliation with any university. Of these 24, 9 list their field of engineering as civil/mechanical/construction engineering. All others are in fields such as electrical or chemical engineering. Still many of these 9 are questionable:

-1.) “Richard Garrison” says he has a civil engineering degree from Purdue University. Yet, although Purdue’s website does confirm that he graduated from there (in December 2007), it says he has a degree in Architectural Technology.

-2.) Couldn’t find anything connecting Warren Fisher to a South African Mechanical Engineers Certificate of Competency.

-3.) Could find no source confirming that Jason Griffin is a member of the ASCE, but in doing a google search I came across a JREF posting that Jason Griffin is listed on ASCE’s directory, available only to members.

-4.) Couldn’t find any source confirming Ted Muga as a Southern Methodist University grad.

-5.) Same situation for Enzo Valenzetti

-6.) Same with Kenneth Wrenn

-7.) Same with Vic Nott. Nothing for a Victor Nott either.

-8.) There is a classmates.com page and a linkedin.com page (both created by the user) stating that Mark Robinson has a degree from the Oregon Institute of Technology, but nothing further.

-9.) Nothing connecting Terri Creech to the University of Oklahoma

Of course, this doesn’t mean that these people have no affiliation with these universities/programs. Typically universities list their professors, so if the majority of these 9 people with relevant alleged engineering degrees (again, only 9 out of 600) have any affiliation with these schools, it’s as a graduate, not a professor. Whatever the case, it goes without saying that there’s much to question about the Scholars for 9/11 Truth and Justice’s member roster. I didn’t look into the members with backgrounds in physics. If anyone else has further info on possibly bogus members, please list them below.

UPDATE: I just noticed that they actually list Arthur Scheuerman, a retired Batallion Chief of the FDNY, as one of their members. For those of you who don't know, Arthur Scheuerman recently did a Hardfire show with Mark Roberts and Ronald Wieck, AGAINST the 9/11 conspiracy theories. These "scholars" for "truth" are so desperate to try to be able to say that members of the FDNY support their claims, that they're taking FDNY firefighter names and adding them to their list themselves.


doobiedoright

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« #191 : April 22, 2008, 10:35:56 AM »

Somebody does not like your CT theories joe hhmm who would that be you ask?



   
Al Qaeda To Iran: Stop Spreading 9/11 CTs!
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080422/...ida_al_zawahri


Quote:
Osama bin Laden's chief deputy on Tuesday denied a theory that Israel carried out the Sept. 11 attacks and blamed Iran and Shiite Hezbollah for spreading the idea to discredit the Sunni al-Qaida's strike against the U.S.
ADVERTISEMENT

The comments in a recording posted on an Islamic Web site reflected the increasing criticism by al-Qaida's No. 2 leader Ayman al-Zawahri against Iran. Al-Zawahri has accused Iran in recent messages of seeking to extend its power in the Middle East, particularly in Iraq and through its Hezbollah allies in Lebanon.

The authenticity of the two-hour audio recording could not be independently confirmed. But the voice sounded like past audiotapes from the terror leader, and the posting where it was found bore the logo of Al-Sahab, al-Qaida's official media arm.

It was the second of two messages answering questions that were posted to Islamic militant Web sites earlier this year.

One of the questioners asked about the theory that has circulated in the Middle East and elsewhere that Israel was behind the 2001 attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.

Al-Zawahri accused Hezbollah's Al-Manar television of starting the rumor.


doobiedoright

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« #192 : April 22, 2008, 10:38:38 AM »

Fire alone has never brought down a building. 

To believe that our government has been COMPLETELY honest in regards to 9/11 is ridiculous.

!

oppp     somebody just got proved wrong!
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080421/ap_on_re_us/building_fire

PHILADELPHIA - A seven-alarm fire has been brought under control in Philadelphia after reducing a four-story warehouse to rubble and threatening neighboring homes.

Come on, Doobie. The argument is that fire had not brought down a steel-framed building before. You can say
that fire AND the damage from the planes brought it down but don't refer to a warehouse in Philly as your
comparison.


Quote from: Snook on 04/17/2008 11:26:59 am
Fire alone has never brought down a building. 

I dont see anything there about steel!


ufojoe

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« #193 : April 22, 2008, 11:12:47 AM »

I didn't see anything in your last post that addressed the group that we have been discussing - AE911.

Snook left out an important part - steel-framed. Big deal. Most people who look into 911 know what he meant.

These aren't my theories. This is an interpretation of data by plenty of engineers and architects who see it differently
than the mainstream guys. Doesn't make them right or wrong. How many times must I say that to you?

I'm trying to avoid Scholars for 911 not because I feel they are wrong but because I feel it's best to stick with
engineers and architects (and explosive/thermite experts when we can find them) when discussing how the towers and WTC7 fell. As I stated before, this group didn't exist before or I wasn't aware of them. But now they are there
and growing in numbers and I will continue to see what they have to say. You can ignore it if you choose.
That's your right. There are other professionals who are relevant to this investigation (physicists, airline pilots,
etc...) but for right now, I'm concentrating on AE911.

I haven't ignored the mainstream. I know what both sides say and I lean heavily towards the ones who question
the official story. Make of that what you will. Wanna call me a CT, be my guest. I don't give a crap.

doobiedoright

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« #194 : April 22, 2008, 11:15:30 AM »


If bombs and thermite were involved, they would have had to have been placed beforehand
by SOMEBODY. You don't need to invoke the word "government." Somebody with access
to the proper areas of the WTC would have had to had access weeks before the event.
If you want to see how that was possible, check out the story of bomb sniffing dogs
being removed from the WTC right before 911 after they had heightened security
in the weeks leading up to the event. Also, there were other events like power
brownouts where people didn't have access to certain areas of at least one tower
for 36 hours at a time. Maybe just a coincidence.



Scott Forbes is the only source of the powerdown information; thousands of people would've been ticked off by this inconvenience and known and talked about it. This is a really silly story; security wouldn't have been turned off. There were definitely no such powerdowns at WTC 7 and WTC 1. 36 hours is inadequate for a controlled demolition; it took 24 days for a 33-level building, and it took at least 4 months for another 30-story office building to be set up with charges. It is also very doubtful that such a power-down would be necessary for a mere cable upgrade.

http://nyctohylophobia.blogspot.com/...own-story.html



Some how I dont think 36 hours is going to be enough time!

Might be time to say what happened  happened and you were wrong Joe!

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