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doobiedoright

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« #195 : April 22, 2008, 11:26:33 AM »

I didn't see anything in your last post that addressed the group that we have been discussing - AE911.

Snook left out an important part - steel-framed. Big deal. Most people who look into 911 know what he meant.

These aren't my theories. This is an interpretation of data by plenty of engineers and architects who see it differently
than the mainstream guys. Doesn't make them right or wrong. How many times must I say that to you?

I'm trying to avoid Scholars for 911 not because I feel they are wrong but because I feel it's best to stick with
engineers and architects (and explosive/thermite experts when we can find them) when discussing how the towers and WTC7 fell. As I stated before, this group didn't exist before or I wasn't aware of them. But now they are there
and growing in numbers and I will continue to see what they have to say. You can ignore it if you choose.
That's your right. There are other professionals who are relevant to this investigation (physicists, airline pilots,
etc...) but for right now, I'm concentrating on AE911.

I haven't ignored the mainstream. I know what both sides say and I lean heavily towards the ones who question
the official story. Make of that what you will. Wanna call me a CT, be my guest. I don't give a crap.


I have to ask Joe...................Why lean towards a CT?
I mean do you not believe  what your eyes see?
You use a lot of truther tatics.Like not putting forth a plausable theory of your own .
Why is that?Could it be cause there is zero evidence To support it?
Lets hear your theory once and for all.
7 years latter and still zero evidence that A space beam,drones,thermait,thermite,military aircraft painted as airlines,missles,or any other wacked out idea had anything to do with 9 11.
Call me crazy but when some nuts say they did it I believe them!
Loose change 1 debunked
Loose change 2 debunked
The 9 11 truth movement are a bunch of liars out to make money off of people like your self!
Wonder how much Alex Jones and the loose change boys have made?
Prove me wrong Joe I dare you!


doobiedoright

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« #196 : April 22, 2008, 11:39:17 AM »

I didn't see anything in your last post that addressed the group that we have been discussing - AE911.

Snook left out an important part - steel-framed. Big deal. Most people who look into 911 know what he meant.

These aren't my theories. This is an interpretation of data by plenty of engineers and architects who see it differently
than the mainstream guys. Doesn't make them right or wrong. How many times must I say that to you?

I'm trying to avoid Scholars for 911 not because I feel they are wrong but because I feel it's best to stick with
engineers and architects (and explosive/thermite experts when we can find them) when discussing how the towers and WTC7 fell. As I stated before, this group didn't exist before or I wasn't aware of them. But now they are there
and growing in numbers and I will continue to see what they have to say. You can ignore it if you choose.
That's your right. There are other professionals who are relevant to this investigation (physicists, airline pilots,
etc...) but for right now, I'm concentrating on AE911.

I haven't ignored the mainstream. I know what both sides say and I lean heavily towards the ones who question
the official story. Make of that what you will. Wanna call me a CT, be my guest. I don't give a crap.


I think I will let the guys @ MIT do it for me!


How the Towers Fell

Given the lack of firm conclusions regarding how the collapses occurred, the M.I.T. panel participants asked their audience to consider various theories they put forth. In general, it was agreed that as the structure warped and weakened at the top of each tower, the frame, along with the concrete slabs, furniture, file cabinets and other materials, became an enormous consolidated weight that eventually crushed the lower portions of the structure below. The details of how the frame members failed remain under contention.
wtc

Professor Connor's theory focused on weaknesses in how the vertical and horizontal structural members were tied together. During construction, he explained, each prefabricated floor system was lifted into place by a crane and "supported at the ends like a hinge, where they were bolted and welded to the inner and outer framing tubes" so that part of the gravity load went through the core and the other part through the exterior structure. "The floor trusses sat on beams and were tied down so the core was locked to the exterior," he said. "It was an unusual system and very lightweight. If you lose the connection between them, however, you lose the ability to carry the floor loads and allow the floors to slide back and forth under stress. If a damaged floor system were to fall, it would break the end connections in the lower floors and down and down the floors would go."

"In my theory, the hot fire weakened the supporting joint connection," Connor continued. "When it broke, one end of a floor fell, damaging the floor system underneath, while simultaneously tugging (pulling) the vertical members to which it was still attached toward the center of the building and down." This phenomenon started a parasitic process that accelerated until total failure and the structure fell in on itself, he said.

Eduardo Kausel proposed an alternative failure explanation that he acknowledged was independently developed by Zdenek Bazant, a professor at Northwestern University. "I believe that the intense heat softened or melted the structural elements—floor trusses and columns—so that they became like chewing gum, and that was enough to trigger the collapse," he said. "The floor trusses are likely to have been the first to sag and fail. As soon as the upper floors became unsupported, debris from the failed floor systems rained down onto the floors below, which eventually gave way, starting an unstoppable sequence. The dynamic forces are so large that the downward motion becomes unstoppable."

Via two simple models, Kausel was able to determine that the fall of the upper building portion down onto a single floor must have caused dynamic forces exceeding the buildings’ design loads by at least an order of magnitude. He also performed some computer simulations that indicate the building material fell almost unrestricted at nearly the speed of free-falling objects. "The towers' resistive systems played no role. Otherwise the elapsed time of the fall would have been extended," he noted. As it was, the debris took about nine seconds to reach the ground from the top.

"It's difficult to judge which of these failure mechanisms occurred first; probably all occurred and interacted," said panel member Oral Buyukozturk, professor of civil and environmental engineering at M.I.T.. "The prolonged effect of high heat is likely to have led to the buckling of the columns, collapse of the floors, as well as to the shearing of the floors upon the failure the joints." He noted that videotapes of the catastrophe showed some tilting of the top portion of the south tower before it collapsed. "This indicates the buckling of one building face while the adjacent face was bending [placed into tension]." After that, the upper portions of the tower are shown disintegrating, with "a dynamic effect and amplification process" following that led to a progressive collapse—"a kind of pancaking or deck of cards effect"—down to ground zero, Buyukozturk stated.

Kausel addressed the oft-asked question of why the towers did not tip over like a falling tree. "A tree is solid, whereas building is mostly air or empty space; only about 10 percent is solid material. Since there is no solid stump underneath to force it to the side, the building cannot tip over. It could only collapse upon itself." Robert McNamara said his failure mechanism theory "focuses on the connections that hold the structure together," but he cautioned that "we really need to wait for a detailed investigation, before we decide if we have to up the code ratings for these connections in signature structures.


Now your not going to say the boys @ MIt are in on it are you?
I think we can all agree MIT is one of the best in the country so good luck tearing them apart Joe!


ufojoe

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« #197 : April 22, 2008, 12:16:05 PM »


Or, you can watch MIT engineer, Jeff King, show the other point of view.



* * * * *

BTW, I've never said that my opinion or the alternative theory folks' opinions are RIGHT.
I now lean heavily towards the alternative explanation. Could the official story be correct?
Yep. I think I've stated that before. You have to actually read what I write and not jump
to conclusions.

Chief Joseph

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« #198 : January 31, 2013, 01:54:50 PM »


Here, you crackpots can beat the dead horse for a while.

Illuminator is a good poster. He sticks to his guns and makes good points. Some don\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'t like that.

Escobar06

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« #199 : January 31, 2013, 01:56:34 PM »

My point was pretty clear, it's surprising that you continue to miss it.

Chief Joseph

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« #200 : January 31, 2013, 02:01:41 PM »


Oh no, I got it. Your point was perfectly clear - and extremely idiotic. Now put on your dust mask and kick them bones!

Illuminator is a good poster. He sticks to his guns and makes good points. Some don\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'t like that.

Escobar06

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« #201 : January 31, 2013, 02:05:09 PM »

Showing people that our government at one point in time decided to plan a terrorist attack on it's own people is "idiotic"?

Interesting concept.

Chief Joseph

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« #202 : January 31, 2013, 02:37:41 PM »


No, but believing that they're capable of pulling it off is. Say   , didn't we just go over this?

Yeah, yeah we did.

Illuminator is a good poster. He sticks to his guns and makes good points. Some don\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'t like that.

Cyrus

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« #203 : January 31, 2013, 02:44:53 PM »

Is this a discussion about whether or not our intelligence agency or its contacts are capable of pulling off a conspiracy? Are you freakin' serious?

Oh look the sky is blue.

tatmanfish

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« #204 : January 31, 2013, 02:46:25 PM »

this thread is proof that people would choose to believe the conclusion of the media(which has corporate an political ties and doesn't present unbiased info any more) instead of researching and looking at the facts and coming to their own conclusion. it shows that a large a number of people refuse any information that doesn't fit that same conclusion.

Americans have become so dumbed down, that would rather believe a lie if it resulted in less critical thought or resulted in them continuing to carry on their sheepish life.

Anyone who has researched the subject without a predetermined bias and has looked fully at both sides evidence can not logically come to the conclusion that is was simply terrorist flying planes into building.

Everything from the pentagon, to the plane that "crashed" in a field, to the thousands of people who collected scientific data and recorded statement from those at the scene. If you think there aren't su**CENSORED**ious anomalies, then youre a simpleton that further contributes to the downfall of our country and civilization. That doesn't mean you have to buy into some mass conspiracy either, but if you don't question the evidence and your government, you are not free, you are not a patriot, you are not an American.

I think many have forgot or never fully learned about the men and their beliefs who led the revolution and helped forged this country. If they did, they would see how far weve been lead away from their works. Its really sad how little critical though America has now a days. People trust the government and media to the ends of the earth and think they have their greater good in mind when in fact that's far from the case. Guys like Benjamin Franklin, Thomas, Washington, etc. would be embarrassed by what the government and the people have become. They always questioned the government and its actions. They went as far to say that its our civil duty as a patriot to do such thing. Its what led to us becoming a country.

Now we trade all our freedoms away for creature comforts. We give away our rights to be more "safe". We live in an age where people are too lazy to even protest or organize against the injustices being committed by the government. Theres nothing to keep them in check any longer except the states and they aren't exactly taking action either. Up until 20-30 years ago, we the people actually had some sort of unbiased media and people would take action when they heard something that didn't sound right. Now everyone just goes along and thinks the government has our best interests in mind and will take care of us when most signs say the opposite is true.




Quote from: Illuminator
You were simply too smart for me.

BucfanNC12

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« #205 : January 31, 2013, 02:53:52 PM »

If there was truely something unusual about the way the building fell....many many many engineers would have cried foul by now.

They have. You heard about it as much much as you hear the first responding fire fighters talk about explosions in the basements of the WTCs.

Cyrus

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« #206 : January 31, 2013, 03:03:00 PM »

If anyone cares to take the time and hasn't already seen this. Then I would strongly urge you to watch it. Architects and Engineers 9/11. I'm actually stunned when I meet someone that doesn't recognize that the official story is nothing but a pack of lies.



Chief Joseph

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« #207 : January 31, 2013, 03:06:49 PM »


Sweet Jesus, I might have to go back to talking about tangential cheetahs. At least there was only one nitwit there.

Illuminator is a good poster. He sticks to his guns and makes good points. Some don\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'t like that.

Escobar06

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« #208 : January 31, 2013, 03:14:36 PM »

Is this a discussion about whether or not our intelligence agency or its contacts are capable of pulling off a conspiracy? Are you freakin' serious?

Oh look the sky is blue.


That's what amuses me so much about illuminators stance. A bunch of cave dwelling extremists could meticulously plan the whole thing out in secrecy, and then execute the plan to near perfection but our massively powerful government with all of their contacts and money couldn't do the same.

Cyrus

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« #209 : January 31, 2013, 03:21:33 PM »


Sweet Jesus, I might have to go back to talking about tangential cheetahs. At least there was only one nitwit there.

How on Earth could you take a position that intelligence agencies and their dirty henchmen are incapable of pulling off  conspiracies and black operations?

Seriously, Illuminator what in fluck are you saying, here?

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