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cyberdude557

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#30 : April 23, 2008, 07:20:47 PM

Give me a break. Environmentalists want to see oil prices soar because they think it will force conservation. Their theory is if they can make energy too expensive for people to afford, people wont buy it and wont use it. That's all the environmentalists care about. They couldn't care less about the middle class or the country. They only care about their own agenda.

Also consider the enormous amount of instability if oil is no longer the standard source of energy. Dozens of governments rely almost entirely on oil. Russia, Africa, and the mid-east would likely begin to destablize. And that would not be in our best interests.

gatorgirl!

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#31 : April 23, 2008, 07:27:05 PM

Has anyone looked at the housing market lately? People can't give their homes away, and the average joe can't afford to buy one. And now it's being suggested to increase the prices of new homes by making it "green," who's going to be able to buy that house? If it costs 25K to install, the asking price will increase by at least 50K. So a 200K house just jumped to 250K and out of the budget for alot of families. Maybe people should just turn off their lights. Use the windows. Watch one tv. Turn the computer off. It's simple to reduce your electricity. Sure, you won't make it go away, but it's more economical for alot more families to use less than to re-do the entire system that provides electricity to a home.


cyberdude557

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#32 : April 23, 2008, 07:34:52 PM

Not only that...but they want to use corn! So the demand for corn will increase and you know what that does? The price for food goes up and we are already in the middle of a global food crisis!

RedAlert

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#33 : April 23, 2008, 07:39:48 PM

Not only that...but they want to use corn! So the demand for corn will increase and you know what that does?


The price of nachos goes up..

alldaway

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#34 : April 23, 2008, 07:42:05 PM

Give me a break. Environmentalists want to see oil prices soar because they think it will force conservation. Their theory is if they can make energy too expensive for people to afford, people wont buy it and wont use it. That's all the environmentalists care about. They couldn't care less about the middle class or the country. They only care about their own agenda.

Also consider the enormous amount of instability if oil is no longer the standard source of energy. Dozens of governments rely almost entirely on oil. Russia, Africa, and the mid-east would likely begin to destablize. And that would not be in our best interests.

Enviromentalists do not want to see oil prices soar.  Carbon dioxide may be a GHG (green house gas) but the oceans can absorb it.  The oceans also can break up oil.

But mercury?  That is difficult and it requires governments cooperating to reduce atmospheric mercury.  The ozone layer hole is decreasing today becuase of the drastic actions by enviromentalists to force governments to reduce CFC's (Chloro Flouro Carbons).  CFC is an inert gas and would eat away at the ozone which protects us from UV rays (other side of the visible light spectrum).

Ask an enviromentalist which is worse and mercury wins hands down over carbon dioxide.  

Also enviromentalits are the ONLY ones that care about the middle class or any class.  Mercury kills indiscriminately and very painfully any human being on this earth.

If it takes those hummers and big SUV/trucks to be off the road becuase of increasing gasoline prices I will not shed a tear personally.  We need to conserve energy and go to smaller vehicles which Europeans have done already (the rest of the world actually).





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#35 : April 23, 2008, 07:44:40 PM

Not only that...but they want to use corn! So the demand for corn will increase and you know what that does? The price for food goes up and we are already in the middle of a global food crisis!

Here is some good news.

Becuase of global warming expect the United States to increase its food production and the colder portions of the country to see warmer, comfortable temperatures.  Unfortunately Africa will experience a sever shortage of food and water (which will surpass oil as an issue in 15 years) and will be hit the most by global warming.

cyberdude557

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#36 : April 23, 2008, 07:46:40 PM

The earth will begin its cooling cycle within 20 years.

The people pushing this global warming nonsense are the same ones that were pushing the global cooling nonsense in the 1970s.

alldaway

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#37 : April 23, 2008, 07:46:46 PM

Has anyone looked at the housing market lately? People can't give their homes away, and the average joe can't afford to buy one. And now it's being suggested to increase the prices of new homes by making it "green," who's going to be able to buy that house? If it costs 25K to install, the asking price will increase by at least 50K. So a 200K house just jumped to 250K and out of the budget for alot of families. Maybe people should just turn off their lights. Use the windows. Watch one tv. Turn the computer off. It's simple to reduce your electricity. Sure, you won't make it go away, but it's more economical for alot more families to use less than to re-do the entire system that provides electricity to a home.



They use solar panels in Europe.  I mean I have family members that use solar panels in Florida to heat the water and saves a lot of money with the electric bill.

Yes solar panels and alternative fuel sources are expensive.  But reality is when the cost of traditional energy methods becomes too great those other options are "cheaper" in comparison.


alldaway

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#38 : April 23, 2008, 07:53:27 PM

The earth will begin its cooling cycle within 20 years.

The people pushing this global warming nonsense are the same ones that were pushing the global cooling nonsense in the 1970s.

We are in an interglacial period (warm) so it is possible we descend into an ice age in 20 years.  But reality is that is unlikely given the amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere that has slowly increased the temperatures of the worlds oceans.

Lets me put it this way.  If we do descend into another ice age the temperatures for those living away from the equator will drop significantly.  The gulf stream may not be enough to warm England and Europe at that point.  People may have to move away and not inhabit many areas of the world.  The last time there was an ice age it was a small one during the Dark Ages and lets say that period of human history was full of disease and famine.

If we do not descend in ice age and the temperatures continue to rise we have to face the reality we have to reduce CO2 emissions.

The worlds oceans can store carbon dioxide but it is a very slow process.  The property of water due to its high heat capacity means the oceans may warm slowly but it  the oceans will also cools slowly.  So the higher temperatures are not leaving us anytime soon.


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#39 : April 23, 2008, 08:03:54 PM


Enviromentalists do not want to see oil prices soar.  ..... 

Also enviromentalits are the ONLY ones that care about the middle class or any class.


Without taking away or disputing any of the technical aspects of your point ADW I don't agree with this part of it. The true Environmentalists maybe, but a lot of the Environmental 'Activists' are yesterdays Revolutionaries and Socialists. They have merely found either another 'cause' to rebel with and get at the Corporate world or they see it as a means to an end.

king_frog

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#40 : April 23, 2008, 08:55:48 PM

Start Drilling and building refineries..

mjs020294

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#41 : April 23, 2008, 09:09:59 PM

Oh, and what do you do if you happen to live in Seattle?

Actually Spartan they have had prototype homes in Scotland and Northern England that have been self sufficient for years.  The technology is there but until the demand and production increases the costs are prohibitive.  AND no one said it was an option for every house in every area, but if you reduce the demand in some areas all areas will benefit.

In Florida most homes could probably generate three or four times the electricity they need, and it can be back-fed into the national grid.  Just think of that, free electric and you get to sell the stuff to the electric company as well.

The problem has always been the cost but with $120 oil we are nearing a point where many options become a possibility.  It also doesn't help much when half of your presidents Christmas card list are people in the oil industry.

If they started with all new homes and made it a building requirement the costs would come down fast.  Another $10k on a mortgage would cost under $50 a month, not bad for free electric.




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#42 : April 23, 2008, 09:49:24 PM

Nuclear power plants and electric cars.

Can you say Tesla Motors ?

85% efficiency means the equivalent of 135 mpg. Goes 0-60 in 4 seconds and will travel 250 miles on a single charge.

Battery cost is still too high right now but hopefully the technology will be affordable soon.

I think the cost is about $ 92K for the roadster right now.

benchwarmer69

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#43 : April 24, 2008, 01:05:37 AM

I guess you will have to wait until hybrid mowers hit the market.

I thought a goat WAS a hybrid......


John Galt?

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#44 : April 24, 2008, 03:15:33 PM



Oh, and what do you do if you happen to live in Seattle?

Seattle gets most of their power from hydro-electric dams.  Gravity is free.

There are thousands of capped oil wells in Texas, NM, AZ plus large oil reserves in the Gulf.  The problem has been the cost of recovering the oil was higher than what it could be sold for.  Unlike MidEast countries,  Oil workers here, especially offshore workers want a pretty high payrate.  We can't pay $2-$3 dollars a hour for workers, so domestic oil has always been high.  With the price up I expect domestic production to increase.  This won't bring prices down but may keep them from rising substantially.

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