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« : December 11, 2006, 10:03:20 AM »

Good post.

Agree, if Gruden is designing plays and the QB isn't making the throws, whose fault is it exaclty?

At leastthe plays are creating opportunities...


Boid, it's Gruden's fault for sticking with Grads in spite of how BAD he is. I find it increasingly hard to believe anyone at TC thot he should start

Karen I think a lot of us are at fault here...When we saw Bruce in the preseason we wanted to believe it was the start of something special....a Tom Brady redux. When Chris went down we thought it was the perfect senerio rookie QB comes in and saves football team.  The kid seemed to have the perfect fit for Jon's offense. We were wrong, Jon was wrong, and we have learned a lesson. Gruden I think has also learned a valuable lesson along with us all. Just because you have legs doesnt mean you are a good QB, QB's are pickd in the 6th round for a reason, Montanas and Bradys are once in 20 year freaks.

Do we fault Jon for sticking with Gradkowski? Yes and no. Yes, because of the fact he talked the kid up and threw his support behind him to a point it alienated Chris Simms. No, because any coach worth his salt would have stood behind their decision and rode it as long as it would go....look at Rex Grossman, Drew Beldsoe, Charlie Frye, Kyle Orton

Only difference is these QB's are changes with semi winning seasons.

Fact of the matter is a team fresh off a conference championship does not get this bad this soon....more goes itno it than that.  A coach doesnt forget how to coach, a team doesnt forget how to play. Its the same playcalling we had when we won the superbowl,  and last season when we won the Central....we are just a few years older

I agree with Jimmy Johnson Fire Gruden the GM keep Gruden the coach



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« #1 : December 10, 2006, 08:22:44 PM »

 First, it looks like the losing has worn on the fans "at least the bandwagon fans" as the stadium has'nt looked that bare since the Fool-a-Fans days. I have noticed the regulars still show up "Big Nasty Little Nasty....etc" However it is apparent from reactions from the crowd that there were about just as many Falcons fans as Bucs fans there.

Second, on a bighter note Caddy seems to be really running better I saw his one fumble however there want much he could have done in that situation as the defender rocked the kid. I saw him creating something out of nothing and he was running at a Caddy level.  If you listen to the commentary from FOX many of you will notice something I have been preaching for awhile.....Defenses are brinign 9-10 in the box to stop Caddy and leaving Bruce opportunites however his accuracy problems downfield isnt really makeing defenses pay for it....so hey why change?

Third,  I really cant hang this one on Jon Gruden totally. Yes I know he is the HC and a great deal is automatically on his head BUT looking at the field of play I saw the plays there I saw the recievers wide open however same ole Gradkowski missed and missed and missed hot reads. Gruden called the correct plays today really I think he called a great game, the injurys , the inexperience, and just the momentium is trumping him right now.

Fourth, It looks like Tim will be in the driver's seat for the rest of the way. I noticed the team up in spirits with the change and he was hitting wide open targets that Grads missed. Even though we didnt score on his drive Rattay seemed to have a better pocket presence, rolled out, and found targets. I guess Experience is what he is bleeding to the players right now. I jumped up and screamed when he hit Galloway in stide both times. We havent seen that cailibur of throwing since #2 ended the season last year. See a few paragraphs above Rattay IS making teams pay for putting the players in the box. If Rattay stars next week look for the running game to all of a sudden........open up! Yes for the remaining three games call me a Tim Rattay fan.

Finally, I am just calling for the fans to just relax. I know they are not fulfilling the expectations we expect as Bucs fans however we have to realize everything that went well for us last year is not going well for us this year. Unfortunatly this year when the starter went down we didnt have a Chris Simms there to pick up the pieces. The defense is not winning the +/- totals and we are just plain in a tailspin.  I think Gruden /Allen deserves ONE MORE YEAR to try to right this ship. They created the cap room we will reap the fruits of their labor. Lets see what we have next year.

Boid Fink

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« #2 : December 10, 2006, 08:26:53 PM »

Good post.

Agree, if Gruden is designing plays and the QB isn't making the throws, whose fault is it exaclty?

At leastthe plays are creating opportunities...



dbucfan

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« #3 : December 10, 2006, 08:30:26 PM »

Well written and thought out utspartan. 

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

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« #4 : December 10, 2006, 08:31:02 PM »

Good post.

Agree, if Gruden is designing plays and the QB isn't making the throws, whose fault is it exaclty?

At leastthe plays are creating opportunities...


Boid, it's Gruden's fault for sticking with Grads in spite of how BAD he is.  I find it increasingly hard to believe anyone at TC thot he should start

Boid Fink

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« #5 : December 10, 2006, 08:35:24 PM »

Good post.

Agree, if Gruden is designing plays and the QB isn't making the throws, whose fault is it exaclty?

At leastthe plays are creating opportunities...


Boid, it's Gruden's fault for sticking with Grads in spite of how BAD he is.
It may be, and IMO it is, but Gruden is loyal at least...

All these thoughts of him selling guys out doesn't fly with me. 

And FWIW, I think Grads having all these games under his belt is a great thing, don't get me wrong.  At 0-3, the season was over, and if you go back, you will see I said it then.  Almost impossible to rectify that mess.  And next year, if Simms comes back, if the Bucs bring in Garcia, if the Bucs bring in WHOEVER, they have a quality backup, who now can steer the ship should it be running askew.

Grads starting 10 games is a minor blessing indisguise.  We all acknowledge the man is a backup (excpet a very select few), and for him to actually have seen the bullets fly is a great thing, IMO.  As for Rattay, well...I think his ship is sailed for sure.  He gets paid a lot of money to do nothing, and this one quarter of play versus a softened up Falcons defense doesn't tell me jack crap.  He didn't get ANY points on the board, and he hasn't been able to rip the ball out of Grads hands, so he must be stinking it up in practice.

Don't be fooled by Rattay, the guy played few minutes, and the game was over already NO DOUBTR ABOUT IT.


dbucfan

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« #6 : December 10, 2006, 08:38:00 PM »

As opposed to putting in whom?  Rattay? for what purpose.  There is NONE.  Karen, finding out what players can do and can't do is all preparation for next year.  Rattay could not hold the 2 spot against at sixth round draft choice from Toledo for crying out loud.  Want to be pissed at something, be pissed the team had a crappy cap situation.  Or that Chris go hurt, or the Oline could not protect him better, or that the NFL gave us a tough schedule that was tougher than anyone anticipated.  

Blame Gruden.  Okay it is all his fault.  You happy now.  It is bs but maybe now you and BucsGuru can offer something else.  Root for Oakland and Detroit to win a couple, then we can get a OL and maybe a DL between the draft and FA.  

Let them rant boid, this crap will not wear itself out because some folks here simply don't get it.  The season was dependent on Simms being healthy and improving.  Neither had a chance to happen.  Wait til next year became the motto in week 3 to anyone with a lick of sense and the ability to read on the insider board.

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

rocko23

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« #7 : December 10, 2006, 08:46:28 PM »

good post

BucsGuru

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« #8 : December 10, 2006, 08:52:03 PM »

As opposed to putting in whom?  Rattay? for what purpose.  There is NONE.  Karen, finding out what players can do and can't do is all preparation for next year.  Rattay could not hold the 2 spot against at sixth round draft choice from Toledo for crying out loud.  Want to be pissed at something, be pissed the team had a crappy cap situation.  Or that Chris go hurt, or the Oline could not protect him better, or that the NFL gave us a tough schedule that was tougher than anyone anticipated. 

Blame Gruden.  Okay it is all his fault.  You happy now.  It is bs but maybe now you and BucsGuru can offer something else.  Root for Oakland and Detroit to win a couple, then we can get a OL and maybe a DL between the draft and FA. 

Let them rant boid, this crap will not wear itself out because some folks here simply don't get it.  The season was dependent on Simms being healthy and improving.  Neither had a chance to happen.  Wait til next year became the motto in week 3 to anyone with a lick of sense and the ability to read on the insider board.

The season was dependent on Simms being healthy and improving?  That's the problem dbuc.  Why in the world would we not do everything to keep Griese or at the very least bring in a HEALTHY veteran back up??  Coaching had everything to do with this season as it pertains to Simms!  We never gave the guy any playing time in pre-season as if he was Tom Brady or Brett Favre.  Then he comes out and begins the season as if he had never played before.  Do you think we would be better off with Simms playing like he was?  In business, you MUST have a back up, and gruden didn't. 

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« #9 : December 10, 2006, 08:54:49 PM »

As opposed to putting in whom? Rattay? for what purpose. There is NONE. Karen, finding out what players can do and can't do is all preparation for next year. Rattay could not hold the 2 spot against at sixth round draft choice from Toledo for crying out loud. Want to be pissed at something, be pissed the team had a crappy cap situation. Or that Chris go hurt, or the Oline could not protect him better, or that the NFL gave us a tough schedule that was tougher than anyone anticipated.

Blame Gruden. Okay it is all his fault. You happy now. It is bs but maybe now you and BucsGuru can offer something else. Root for Oakland and Detroit to win a couple, then we can get a OL and maybe a DL between the draft and FA.

Let them rant boid, this crap will not wear itself out because some folks here simply don't get it. The season was dependent on Simms being healthy and improving. Neither had a chance to happen. Wait til next year became the motto in week 3 to anyone with a lick of sense and the ability to read on the insider board.

The season was dependent on Simms being healthy and improving? That's the problem dbuc. Why in the world would we not do everything to keep Griese or at the very least bring in a HEALTHY veteran back up?? Coaching had everything to do with this season as it pertains to Simms! We never gave the guy any playing time in pre-season as if he was Tom Brady or Brett Favre. Then he comes out and begins the season as if he had never played before. Do you think we would be better off with Simms playing like he was? In business, you MUST have a back up, and gruden didn't.

Do you know the Bucs (Gruden) tried to get Garcia in here and they could not afford to pay him right?

You know that Fiedler never recouped from his shoulder problems right?

You do know that McCown blew a knee right?

And you do know that if these things did not happen, Rattay would be pavement material right?

The Bucs have Grads, Rattay, and IKE HILLIARD as QBs right now.  How in the name do you try to lure backuop when you have no money, or when you do get it, it goes down with injuries?

And I simply KNEW you could not make it through one post without saying it wa Grudens fault.  Classic you, which is the same as classic Rock Pets.


watson

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« #10 : December 10, 2006, 08:56:19 PM »

As opposed to putting in whom?  Rattay? for what purpose.  There is NONE.  Karen, finding out what players can do and can't do is all preparation for next year.  Rattay could not hold the 2 spot against at sixth round draft choice from Toledo for crying out loud.  Want to be pissed at something, be pissed the team had a crappy cap situation.  Or that Chris go hurt, or the Oline could not protect him better, or that the NFL gave us a tough schedule that was tougher than anyone anticipated.  

Blame Gruden.  Okay it is all his fault.  You happy now.  It is bs but maybe now you and BucsGuru can offer something else.  Root for Oakland and Detroit to win a couple, then we can get a OL and maybe a DL between the draft and FA.  

Let them rant boid, this crap will not wear itself out because some folks here simply don't get it. The season was dependent on Simms being healthy and improving. Neither had a chance to happen. Wait til next year became the motto in week 3 to anyone with a lick of sense and the ability to read on the insider board.
DBF,
Sadly you are wasting your time.  Logic and common sense has no place in their world.

Truths:
1.  Never have an argument with an idiot.  They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with their experience.
2.  For some it would be better if they remained silent and be thought a fool than to speak and erase all doubt.

dalbuc

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« #11 : December 10, 2006, 08:58:42 PM »


Do you know the Bucs (Gruden) tried to get Garcia in here and they could not afford to pay him right?

You know that Fiedler never recouped from his shoulder problems right?

You do know that McCown blew a knee right?

Garcia is  min wage so we could have paid him. That's not true.

Fielder was hurt when we signed him so that's a dumb risk.

McCown, who the heck cares.


All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.

dbucfan

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« #12 : December 10, 2006, 09:00:05 PM »

Guru, read this carefully, the Bears had more money and bought him from us.  We offered him a contract based on our cap.  It was not enough money.  Griese plays for money, most money gets him.  

As for a healthy vet, they cost money, bucs did not have it.  This is not complicated.  Simms got playing time, he could have had more, but... is that why you rant about Gruden?  Simms preseason playing time?  No, I didn't think so.  Read Guru, PR has archieves.  Read them, especially cap issues created before SB run.  

And you can say must as often as you want, but if you can't pay to get a good vet back up you don't get one.  It is really that simple.  Go read the archieves, it is all there.  Boid is pointing it all out with great patience.  Mine is not so good.  Read guru, or be prepared to get adverse responses to your repetitive, inaccurate posts. 

Dal - bucs did bid on Garcia, Cleveland bid more.  Way more. 

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

dalbuc

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« #13 : December 10, 2006, 09:00:21 PM »

Let them rant boid, this crap will not wear itself out because some folks here simply don't get it.  The season was dependent on Simms being healthy and improving.  Neither had a chance to happen.  Wait til next year became the motto in week 3 to anyone with a lick of sense and the ability to read on the insider board.

You think this helps your position that Gruden has no blame for this but if you think putting a single point of failure out there like that you are crazy. This team was so fragile in composition and talent that Simms was the only glue holding it together? Dear god that alone might get me to fire Gruden if it was true.

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.

dalbuc

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« #14 : December 10, 2006, 09:01:14 PM »

Dal - bucs did bid on Garcia, Cleveland bid more.  Way more. 

Funny the way he's not in CLE this year, PHL paid him 710k which is basically the vet min at his age, or less than what The Rat gets in another way of looking at it.

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.
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