re: Saints

[Feel Real Good]

Funny how quickly the Saints built a offensive line and it's taking the Buccaneers 31 years and counting to build a offensive line.

LT Jammal Brown is a second year, both with the Saints, 13th overall draft pick
LG Jamer Nesbit is an eight year vet, 3rd with the Saints, undrafted
C Jeff Faine is a fourth year vet, 1st with the Saints, 21st overall draft pick
RG Jahri Evans is a rookie, drafted by the Saints, 4th round draft pick
RT Jon Stinchcomb is a fourth year, drafted by the Saints, 2nd round draft pick (5th in that round)

It still takes time to build a line, although it should be noted that Offensive Coordinator/Offensive Line coach Doug Marrone just joined the team this year. Hmm.....

It's painfully evident where all the talent in the Stichcomb family went.

And how much does it suck to see Devery Handerson, Michael Clayton's college teammate, blow up every week when MC seems to have plateaued somewhere during his rookie season?

[bradentonian]

did we ever have a shot at drew brees... he's truly a beast

Sure we had a shoit if we could have convinced him to start for 600K and not 60 million. Seriously we didn't have the cap form him. We even looked at McNair and didn't have the cap. Gruden definitely wanted a vet backup at the least but couldn't afford one. The best we could get with our cap was Fiedler who was signed cheap due to his injury.

As I pointed out eariler, Brees' cap value for 2006 is less than $4MM, meaning we could have afforded him.  His cap value increases quite a bit in 2007, but that coincides with our increase in cap room, again meaning we could have afforded him.  I assume that GruAllen thought it was too much of a gamble based on his injury.

[BUCFAN4LIFE]

did we ever have a shot at drew brees... he's truly a beast

Sure we had a shoit if we could have convinced him to start for 600K and not 60 million. Seriously we didn't have the cap form him. We even looked at McNair and didn't have the cap. Gruden definitely wanted a vet backup at the least but couldn't afford one. The best we could get with our cap was Fiedler who was signed cheap due to his injury.

[bradentonian]

Actually his deal was 60mil. Base salaries are 40 mil over the life plus 20 mil bonus and 10 mil gauranted in 1st two years. His cap hit this year without using the guaranteed cause I dont know how it was structured was 5.2 mil this season. Add in the guaranteed money and it is higher. Dont know where you came up 4 mil??? But that figure is wrong. Just on his base of 1.9 and his bonus of 3.3 he comes out at over 5 mil this year alone. Add i what the guarantees are and it is higher.

SB was $10MM over 6 years, salary this year is $1.9MM.  He has a $10MM roster bonus next year, which is why his cap value is so much higher in 2007.  His contract was built like Gold's was here, where the first year was a low-cost trial and the team could trigger the remainder of the deal in year two.

Edit:  ESPN reports SB of $8MM with a $12MM roster bonus next year, which is even more cap-friendly in 2006.  Either way, still $20MM, with the bulk coming in year two.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2368304

[BUCFAN4LIFE]

Actually his deal was 60mil. Base salaries are 40 mil over the life plus 20 mil bonus and 10 mil gauranted in 1st two years. His cap hit this year without using the guaranteed cause I dont know how it was structured was 5.2 mil this season. Add in the guaranteed money and it is higher. Dont know where you came up 4 mil??? But that figure is wrong. Just on his base of 1.9 and his bonus of 3.3 he comes out at over 5 mil this year alone. Add i  what the guarantees are and it is higher.

[XXXVII Champs]

The Bucs did not have the cap room to sign Brees.

I don't think the Bucs would have pulled the trigger on Brees anyway.

[alldaway]

The Bucs did not have the cap room to sign Brees.

Brees 2006 cap value:  $3.6MM
Simms+Rattay 2006 cap value:  $3.5MM

That is misleading.

1.  If you cut Simms and Rattay you have to pay the replacements for them.  So lets assume Gradkowski is the third QB (275k) but who is the second QB?  You have to pay a second QB.

2. The Bucs did not have the cap space to enter a bidding war for Brees services.  A divison rival like the Saints would not allow Brees to become a Buc.  Basically they had more cap muscle.

[bradentonian]

The Bucs did not have the cap room to sign Brees.

Brees 2006 cap value:  $3.6MM
Simms+Rattay 2006 cap value:  $3.5MM

[alldaway]

The Bucs did not have the cap room to sign Brees.

[flyinbuc]

The good news on the Saints is they had a worse record than us last year, added 34 new players and bam they look pretty darn good.  Gives a glimmer of hope of what might be possible.

Actually his deal was 60mil. Base salaries are 40 mil over the life plus 20 mil bonus and 10 mil gauranted in 1st two years. His cap hit this year without using the guaranteed cause I dont know how it was structured was 5.2 mil this season. Add in the guaranteed money and it is higher. Dont know where you came up 4 mil??? But that figure is wrong. Just on his base of 1.9 and his bonus of 3.3 he comes out at over 5 mil this year alone. Add i what the guarantees are and it is higher.

SB was $10MM over 6 years, salary this year is $1.9MM.  He has a $10MM roster bonus next year, which is why his cap value is so much higher in 2007.  His contract was built like Gold's was here, where the first year was a low-cost trial and the team could trigger the remainder of the deal in year two.

Edit:  ESPN reports SB of $8MM with a $12MM roster bonus next year, which is even more cap-friendly in 2006.  Either way, still $20MM, with the bulk coming in year two.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2368304

 

while we waste $1.4 mil on Rattay [banghead] [banghead] [banghead]

[alldaway]

Had the Bucs made the "effort" all the Bucs would have had in return was a brownie point and Brees would be a few millon dollars richer but still a Saint.  The reason why Brees was signed so cheaply in the first place becuase there was no one else bidding for him once Miami dropped out and went to Culpepper.

They were not willing to frontload the deal but had the cap space to do so if they wanted to keep Brees away from their division rival.  I argue they would have done it considering SP was the one who wanted Brees.

Of course it is not impossible but it is unrealistic.  The "cap hell" folks are one extreme and the "we could have signed anybody" are on the other extreme. 

Realistically speaking the Saints are not dumb and none of the other division rivals in the NFC south are stupid.  I find it hard to believe the Saints would have retreated the minute the Bucs would have looked at Brees direction.

[Feel Real Good]

I think it makes no sense. I find it hard to believe the Saints would roll over and die and let a division rival like the Bucs sign Brees. They had the cap muscle and SP had the desire to bring him in.

You guys make it sound like the Saints would have put up the white flag the minute the Bucs entered the bidding war with their "tremendous cap space". That is why I have a hard time buying it.

Did we make an effort?

You see the way they built the deal was to backload the heck out of it. Front end jack wasn't something they were willing to put up and we now know we could compete on the backend of the deal based on our cap projections now. We've got the weather, the stadium, the no state income tax. The thing is when you look at how the deal was laid out by NO and what our cap situation was it isn't as impossible as the "cap hell" folks make it sound. Tough, sure, maybe Ellis Wyms have to re-do his deal a bit to find some more room, for example, but we were closer than a lot of folks think to playing in the same ballpark.

I think most of the league was pretty scared of him coming off that injury and still wondering if he was the real deal or just got lucky after sucking the beginning of his career.

[dalbuc]

I think it makes no sense.  I find it hard to believe the Saints would roll over and die and let a division rival like the Bucs sign Brees.  They had the cap muscle and SP had the desire to bring him in.

You guys make it sound like the Saints would have put up the white flag the minute the Bucs entered the bidding war with their "tremendous cap space".  That is why I have a hard time buying it.

Did we make an effort? 

You see the way they built the deal was to backload the heck out of it.  Front end jack wasn't something they were willing to put up and we now know we could compete on the backend of the deal based on our cap projections now. We've got the weather, the stadium, the no state income tax. The thing is when you look at how the deal was laid out by NO and what our cap situation  was it isn't as impossible as the "cap hell" folks make it sound. Tough, sure, maybe Ellis Wyms have to re-do his deal a bit to find some more room, for example, but we were closer than a lot of folks think to playing in the same ballpark.

[alldaway]

I think it makes no sense.  I find it hard to believe the Saints would roll over and die and let a division rival like the Bucs sign Brees.  They had the cap muscle and SP had the desire to bring him in.

You guys make it sound like the Saints would have put up the white flag the minute the Bucs entered the bidding war with their "tremendous cap space".  That is why I have a hard time buying it.