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tbc_bucs

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#30 : April 28, 2008, 11:06:22 PM

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He will be as great as he wants to be, and a good RB is not as hard to find as a good CB

What defensive scheme are the Bucs using that allows them to rotate in new CB's and safties on a yearly basis and barely drop off in level of pass defense?



As more people figure out the Tampa 2 and the cover 4 that we are playing more and more lately, man coverages will become more important. Life after Monte might be different, and while it is safe to assume he will be here for another couple years what about 4-5 years from now? He is old and there is no guarantee that we will employ the same system. What if we cant keep Morris next year? We could be back to an unmotivated secondary like 2006. We need another leader in the locker room from our secondary, this year was a great time to groom one.


dbucfan

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#31 : April 28, 2008, 11:08:10 PM

TBC - you don't have to hate the pick to have questions.  Hell, I don't hate the pick.  

Answer this one for me - buccs have Cox, Smith, Barber, Wilson, and Pbuc at CB.

Buccs have EG, Dunn and Bennett at RB - oh yea, and Darby.  

Pbucc played great last year, Barber was Barber, Wilson is considered a good player as is Cox, and Raheem is a genius at coaching CBs.

EG was super in filling in for Caddy - shocked damn near everyone - can he do it again?  I love WDunn - but can his wheels hold up?  RB is a young man's position - and young in now in his rear view mirror.  And Bennett - if he learns the playbook, AND learns he has to practice well to play - well no one I know thinks those two items should be an issue for  a Vet - but they were.  

So - you really can't see why some folks would see RB as a bigger need than CB - really?  

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

alldaway

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#32 : April 28, 2008, 11:08:34 PM

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I really don't see the difference between Graham and Mendenhall.

I don't see the difference between Talib and Wilson.

Don't worry the Bucs have to face Michael Turner X 2 per year as well as Jonathan Stewart X 2 per year.   Then you can begin to understand what the Bucs are missing out on.  The Steelers now have a back that can really be a force.


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#33 : April 28, 2008, 11:09:46 PM

i think a better question is how we could pass on Sweed, Broehm, Henne at 52 and trade down? Heck we could have had Manningham at 83. This guy probably has the most skill of any WR in the draft. Sweed or Manningham can be #1 WR's. I can't see Dexter Jackson being one.


SunnyD

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#34 : April 28, 2008, 11:10:46 PM

Lets see if Michael Turner, Mendenhall and Stewart can handle the punishment of being an every done back in the pro's before we annoint (word?) them all stars.

I understand Graham isn't as sexy as the first round pick all of you were apparently seeking but he gets it done.

escobar

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#35 : April 28, 2008, 11:13:34 PM

The Bucs had the #1 pass defense last year.

It is not as clear cut as it is made out to be.

Taking BAP and adding a playmaker that the offense desperately needed was a no brainer to me.

The Bucs have contract issues to sort out at RB (Does Graham receive a new contract?  Will Carnell be re-signed down the road? ) as well not just CB with only Barber signed beyond this year.

You don't draft another 1st round RB when you just finished 10th in rushing and you have a top 5 pick at RB rehabbing from injury. You wait to see if you NEED to take a RB first before you do so, and clearly right now we didn't need to or else we would have. What happens if we did take Mendenhall, Ronde or PBuc goes down with injury, and Carnell comes back from his injury and plays well? Now we have two first round RB's and a HUGE need at CB with nowhere to turn. Even though BK was often hurt he still played well when he was in, Ronde isn't getting any younger, and we are down to a guy who has never played in our system (Wilson) and two average quality CB's in Cox and Davis. I'm really surprised so many people on here are surprised by the pick. To me it was a glaring need and I was very confident that we were never in the market for a RB in the first few rounds, unless something crazy happened such as McFadden dropping down to us.

alldaway

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#36 : April 28, 2008, 11:14:31 PM

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I understand Graham isn't as sexy as the first round pick all of you were apparently seeking but he gets it done.

Graham is 28 years old.

The average career for a running back is three years.  RB's are grinded and chewed out in a blink of time (eg Shaun Alexander).




dbucfan

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#37 : April 28, 2008, 11:14:56 PM

The Jackson pick is an easier one to follow.  In the past two years the buccs have aimed at a later round pick for speed at the KR/PR/Wr spot.  Each time another team reached to take their player.  This year the buccs reached a little when the run on WRs and speed players hit in the second round.  

I don't see Sweed or Manningham as #1s, nor do I think they are targeted to be 1s, but I suppose it could happen.  We will see.

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

TOP SECRET

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#38 : April 28, 2008, 11:15:33 PM

TBC - you don't have to hate the pick to have questions.  Hell, I don't hate the pick. 

Answer this one for me - buccs have Cox, Smith, Barber, Wilson, and Pbuc at CB.

Buccs have EG, Dunn and Bennett at RB - oh yea, and Darby. 

Pbucc played great last year, Barber was Barber, Wilson is considered a good player as is Cox, and Raheem is a genius at coaching CBs.

EG was super in filling in for Caddy - shocked damn near everyone - can he do it again?  I love WDunn - but can his wheels hold up?  RB is a young man's position - and young in now in his rear view mirror.  And Bennett - if he learns the playbook, AND learns he has to practice well to play - well no one I know thinks those two items should be an issue for  a Vet - but they were. 

So - you really can't see why some folks would see RB as a bigger need than CB - really? 
I will agree with you on that, I made it clear that I thought RB was a position of need, I wanted CJ and that didn't work out. My main thing is though, I thought we should've gotten one in the draft at some point early on Day 2 or in the 2nd... it didn't work out. I only hope EG can hold up for another year, or someone like our 7th rounder decides to be a beast.

SunnyD

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#39 : April 28, 2008, 11:16:32 PM


Graham is 28 years old.

The average career for a running back is three years.  RB's are grinded and chewed out in a blink of time (eg Shaun Alexander).



So he has two years to go. Sounds Good.

Graham's age is misleading because he is realtively fresh. He only played Special teams basically his first few years in the league and only started for part of a season.



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#40 : April 28, 2008, 11:19:33 PM

You don't draft another 1st round RB when you just finished 10th in rushing and you have a top 5 pick at RB rehabbing from injury.

Seems to me that the having a rb rehabbing from injury is more reason to do so.... and I think Mike Tomlin would agree with me.

alldaway

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#41 : April 28, 2008, 11:16:44 PM

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You don't draft another 1st round RB when you just finished 10th in rushing and you have a top 5 pick at RB rehabbing from injury

The Bucs finished #1 overall in pass defense with the help of Buchanon.  So what this all comes down to is can Buchanon be re-signed?

If not then the Talib pick makes logical sense and is a calculated move that deserves praise.  If not then that is taking away valuable resources that the offense desperately needs.


dbucfan

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#42 : April 28, 2008, 11:21:04 PM

The Bucs had the #1 pass defense last year.

It is not as clear cut as it is made out to be.

Taking BAP and adding a playmaker that the offense desperately needed was a no brainer to me.

The Bucs have contract issues to sort out at RB (Does Graham receive a new contract?  Will Carnell be re-signed down the road? ) as well not just CB with only Barber signed beyond this year.

You don't draft another 1st round RB when you just finished 10th in rushing and you have a top 5 pick at RB rehabbing from injury. You wait to see if you NEED to take a RB first before you do so, and clearly right now we didn't need to or else we would have. What happens if we did take Mendenhall, Ronde or PBuc goes down with injury, and Carnell comes back from his injury and plays well? Now we have two first round RB's and a HUGE need at CB with nowhere to turn. Even though BK was often hurt he still played well when he was in, Ronde isn't getting any younger, and we are down to a guy who has never played in our system (Wilson) and two average quality CB's in Cox and Davis. I'm really surprised so many people on here are surprised by the pick. To me it was a glaring need and I was very confident that we were never in the market for a RB in the first few rounds, unless something crazy happened such as McFadden dropping down to us.

Escobar - you know I like a lot of your thoughts - but on this one - check out what I posted earlier.  RB is at least in a bad a situation as DB - THIS YEAR.  Next year it could switch - and CB be worse unless some of the contracts get extended.  But if EG simply performs the way most #3 rbs do - well the Oline will have to block like the devil to keep the ground game going.

Really - folks are just looking for a legit answer.  Nobody seems to be anti buc or stupid here.  I understand what you and others are saying - but surely you understand the shortcomings of the comparison between the RB needs and the CB needs.

And to add to it - what if Caddy doesn't recover.  Next year EG is 29 - Dunn qualifies for NFL AARP now, Bennett is right behind him.  Darby can get on the 53 when everyone is hurt.  And the buccs passed on Mendenhall and Chris Johnson?  Do you really get the rationale - bc I am missing it.  And I am not saying the buccs made a bad or wrong choice - but I sure don't get it...

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

leeroybuc93

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#43 : April 28, 2008, 11:21:34 PM

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You don't draft another 1st round RB when you just finished 10th in rushing and you have a top 5 pick at RB rehabbing from injury

The Bucs finished #1 overall in pass defense with the help of Buchanon.  So what this all comes down to is can Buchanon be re-signed?

If not then the Talib pick makes logical sense and is a calculated move that deserves praise.  If not then that is taking away valuable resources that the offense desperately needs.



Even if we can resign him I still like this move.  Many felt Talib was a top 10 talent.  Nobody felt that way about Mendenhall.  Also at Barber's age he could fall off at any moment.  He could retire after this season for all we know.  To me, however,  it simply comes down to the fact that we probably aren't going to get a talent like Talib at #20 again any time soon.  I think our need at CB was just a great as our need at RB and Talib is simply the better player.  

alldaway

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#44 : April 28, 2008, 11:21:46 PM

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So he has two years to go. Sounds Good.

Graham's age is misleading because he is realtively fresh. He only played Special teams basically his first few years in the league and only started for part of a season.

I suppose we can consider him fresh if we ignore what he did in college.  We will find out quickly starting this year if Graham can continue his pace not two years down the road.
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