Jon Gruden, offensive genius

[Runole]

And what's your point? Is there one doggone point here that hasn't been rehashed over and over and over? ONE!!???!!!
No, of course not. So why bring it up? I tell you why. The Gruden haters have it as their mission to ANNOY the heck out of those who once supported Gruden. We all see the failure. What do you want us to do, cry?
The term ''genius'' was used by a very small group of writers or fans. Even after we won, nobody thought that way. He did a wonderful job vs. Philly, even better job vs. Oakland. But genius? No, just a great young coach. So why piss all over any of us who enjoyed it and wanted to celebrate the guy?
I'll tell you why. Because some resented Dungy's ouster. Some wanted to see him fail as if to make things right with Dungy.
Well, I sat in the cold in Philadelphia those two years we were humiliated in 2000 and 2001. Contrary to the myths spread here, we were FAVORED the first year. I can give you a link to a pre-game preview if you disbelieve. We were the veteran team in 2000 and Philly was the new guy on the block and they HUMILIATED us. A whole year of living with that and we lost even WORSE the next year. And voila, Dungy was gone.
Yeah, he made the playoffs three of four years. Yeah, he built most of what we had up, along with McKay. But the team that left the field in Philadelphia after a 31-9 slaparound in the 2001 playoffs didn't resemble a Super Bowl champion in any way. Gruden brought in some good players, brought in new energy, got some luck (see Green Bay's injuries, McNabb's injury), a little help (Jets over Packers, NE over Miami) and won the whole thing.
So what's it mean now? We paid the piper for all those picks given up, all the cap space sacrificed both ahead of time (Gramatica, Rice, etc.), in an attempt to bounce back unwisely (Deese, Stinchcomb, Garner, etc.) and now have been unlucky to boot.
Gruden has seen every ounce of dignity stripped away and we are a joke again. Happy? Enjoy his failure?
A real fan is thankful to Dungy for his part, thankful to Jon for his part, thankful (even beyond the anger) to McKay too. But they don't rub salt in the wounds of their Buccaneer brethren. It's gonna be a long road back. It might take MANY years. We will either engross ourselves in self-pity and self-loathing or climb out of this thing and find glory again.
I choose glory.

Excellent post and pretty much defines each side quite well.

On one side you have the "negatologists" who scream  loudly in  their recently formed  "I HATE JON GRUDEN FAN CLUB".  Even if Gruden succeeds it will never matter to them since their bed was made long ago.  They are truly the "weak" willed of our society and are always whining and crying because "life" isn't perfect.  They are "LOSERS" that always claim they are OWED something.

It is a good idea to ignore them as much as possible for they bring nothing good to anything.

_________________________________________


On the other side you have Optimists that have a realistic viewpoint of football and realize that in football there will always be peaks and valleys and that patience is always a virtue.   That good things take time and every decision won't be always the Right one.  However, they continue to support the team through thick and thin.  Many were around when it was 0-26, and they truly know what utter "futility" is. They also have the ability to separate "Fact" from "Fiction".  They realize that the local media has been locked out of the Bucs Organization due to their own actions, and that this media has a mindless "Agenda" of pure hatred for the Tampa Bay Buccaneers and all involved with them. 


Oh and they are angry as well, but their anger is placed towards the "ignorant" even if they too have their say.  They continue to hope and pray everyday that the BUCs will always ignore that "hate filled" voice and realize that there are FANs that will support them and see the Forest through the trees.  It has been a disappointing season however there will be another one next year.

It is more important to "treasure" the journey.  Thats what makes life interesting with all its challenges.

[Shag]

I don't buy the taking sides stuff. There is plenty of space in the middle.

[BUCFAN4LIFE]

I'll take NFL.coms-- the official stats according to the league and they were never 8 in Dungy's 1st year as you propose.

As for draft picks and FA money-- Freeny, Doss, June, Sanderd, Brackett, Bethea, Mathis, McFarland (ha).. Yeah he wasn't able to spend anything or acquire throught the draft. You really are FOS.

Take whatever stats you like the variance doesn't alter things that much, 8 or 11 take you pick. It is all above average and neither figure helps you argument. Wow, so you've proven the Colts had draft picks. Good move, you've proven they had 6th, 5th, 6th round picks, a couple of second rounders and a first. If we'd found late round players like June, Mathis and Bethea we'd not be as badly off as we are.

Bottom line, is that none of this really matters a lick other than to show just how wheels off you are about Gruden that your only argument is that Tony Dungy is bad too. Like somehow that matters anyways. The Grudenista have some unhealthy fixation on Dungy and it is odd that the only time he's brought up are by the huggers and not the haters. Don't tell me about Dungy, tell me why this offense blows chunks for most of Gruden's time here. Tell me how TEN is 19th in points with a rookie QB, a bunch of injured WR's, a no name OL and a RB reject. DET is 15th in yards and they've got a horrible team with basically 2 players you'd want on any other teams - Roy W and Jeff Backus. CLE is better than we are and they fired their d@mn OC. Tell me why OAK is better than we are, OAK for god's sake! Finally, tell me why Dungy's offenses got him fired and Gruden's offense which are worse, with more talent, don't even get a whiff of criticism from the Grudenista? FOS? Hey, let me tell you something be a fan of the Bucs, not Gruden and then come back and talk to me about FOS.

First off i am a fan of the Bucs-- last I checked Gruden was a Buc-- your excuse???

You said that Dungy didn't have picks or FA dollars to spend-- Horse-**CENSORED** and thats why I called you FOS. As for Dungy i never brought him up the guy i replied to did-- you know a "hater" not a "hugger"-- try paying attention! As for the rest who really cares --- Gruden will be here next year anyways--- try being a fan of the whole organization!

[MiltonMack21]

I'll take NFL.coms-- the official stats according to the league and they were never 8 in Dungy's 1st year as you propose.

As for draft picks and FA money-- Freeny, Doss, June, Sanderd, Brackett, Bethea, Mathis, McFarland (ha).. Yeah he wasn't able to spend anything or acquire throught the draft. You really are FOS.

Take whatever stats you like the variance doesn't alter things that much, 8 or 11 take you pick. It is all above average and neither figure helps you argument. Wow, so you've proven the Colts had draft picks. Good move, you've proven they had 6th, 5th, 6th round picks, a couple of second rounders and a first. If we'd found late round players like June, Mathis and Bethea we'd not be as badly off as we are.

Bottom line, is that none of this really matters a lick other than to show just how wheels off you are about Gruden that your only argument is that Tony Dungy is bad too. Like somehow that matters anyways. The Grudenista have some unhealthy fixation on Dungy and it is odd that the only time he's brought up are by the huggers and not the haters. Don't tell me about Dungy, tell me why this offense blows chunks for most of Gruden's time here. Tell me how TEN is 19th in points with a rookie QB, a bunch of injured WR's, a no name OL and a RB reject. DET is 15th in yards and they've got a horrible team with basically 2 players you'd want on any other teams - Roy W and Jeff Backus. CLE is better than we are and they fired their d@mn OC. Tell me why OAK is better than we are, OAK for god's sake! Finally, tell me why Dungy's offenses got him fired and Gruden's offense which are worse, with more talent, don't even get a whiff of criticism from the Grudenista? FOS? Hey, let me tell you something be a fan of the Bucs, not Gruden and then come back and talk to me about FOS.

First off i am a fan of the Bucs-- last I checked Gruden was a Buc-- your excuse???

You said that Dungy didn't have picks or FA dollars to spend-- Horse-crap and thats why I called you FOS. As for Dungy i never brought him up the guy i replied to did-- you know a "hater" not a "hugger"-- try paying attention! As for the rest who really cares --- Gruden will be here next year anyways--- try being a fan of the whole organization!

Ok.. I want to get something straight, and correct me if I am wrong here. But does being a fan of the Bucs mean you cannot want the coach who has the 31st ranked offense (which is getting worse each week), who has had 3 our of 5 10+ loss season, fired?

[Itchalot]

You are wrong. You can want that.  But is it OK with you if some of us try to remain reasonable and rational, and think about the future of the team instead of getting our pound of flesh?

[Runole]

You are wrong. You can want that.  But is it OK with you if some of us try to remain reasonable and rational, and think about the future of the team instead of getting our pound of flesh?

It is always that way with the "ENTITLED"...  How they feel the way they do has always been one of lifes great mysteries?     Perhaps they were spoiled as children and always got their way by "throwing temper tantrums".   Usually they find out sooner or later that will never be the road to happiness or success. They have no patience and that is why they are  the eternally miserable "crybabies".  I really kind of feel sorry for them in a pitying sort of way.

[MiltonMack21]

You are wrong. You can want that.  But is it OK with you if some of us try to remain reasonable and rational, and think about the future of the team instead of getting our pound of flesh?

Everyone is entitled to their opinions, however uneducated and uninformed they might be.

[MiltonMack21]

You are wrong. You can want that.  But is it OK with you if some of us try to remain reasonable and rational, and think about the future of the team instead of getting our pound of flesh?

It is always that way with the "ENTITLED"...  How they feel the way they do has always been one of lifes great mysteries?     Perhaps they were spoiled as children and always got their way by "throwing temper tantrums".   Usually they find out sooner or later that will never be the road to happiness or success. They have no patience and that is why they are  the eternally miserable "crybabies".  I really kind of feel sorry for them in a pitying sort of way.

Now that might be the funniest and most dead wrong post in this entire discussion. I accepted failure with the Bucs for 15 years, now why on gods green earth would I want to go through it again?

[BUCFAN4LIFE]

You are wrong. You can want that. But is it OK with you if some of us try to remain reasonable and rational, and think about the future of the team instead of getting our pound of flesh?

Everyone is entitled to their opinions, however uneducated and uninformed they might be.

Yes they are, even you the uninformed. One would at least think those who throw stones would at least know Gruden has never had 3 ten plus loss seasons in his career.

[jerseybucsfan]

On some level these threads numb the pain. When a team gets this bad, any old distraction will do, even if it's irrational. The good years go by too quickly and the bad ones seem to last forever.

[MiltonMack21]

You are wrong. You can want that. But is it OK with you if some of us try to remain reasonable and rational, and think about the future of the team instead of getting our pound of flesh?

Everyone is entitled to their opinions, however uneducated and uninformed they might be.

Yes they are, even you the uninformed. One would at least think those who throw stones would at least know Gruden has never had 3 ten plus loss seasons in his career.

You are correct, he had a 7-9 record in 2003. 5-11 the next year and quite possibly 3-13 this year.