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thanson

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« #105 : May 15, 2008, 02:55:13 PM »

You are forgetting about our #2 wr...Chad Johnson. Although the trade for simms has not come out yet.


The White Tiger

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« #106 : May 15, 2008, 03:04:04 PM »

Yes, it does appear that the Bucs think the team around their receivers is good enough to allow a marginal group to succeed, again.

Just like last year, that means you don't think your competition improved all that much.

But I ask you, do you think we got some help last year from our divisional foes? Now I ask you; did New Orleans get better? Did Carolina get better? Will we beat Atlanta twice, again this year?

Will we be playing the same quality in our non-conference schedule, or will that non-conference schedule be better?

I believe our talent may be at least as good as last year (depending on Joey G's status), but I believe our competition will be much better. That is how my comments should be considered. We were as fortunate that our competition folded like a deck of cards last year as we were that the offensive FA acquisitions/additions of Jeff Garcia and Luke Petitgout and Donald Penn - turned out to be difference makers we thought they could be (and in one case surprised us positively).  Additionally, the stepping up of Graham when all looked lost can also be attributed to the improved play at o-line and QB, but also the competition being less than anticipated greatly improved the win loss record.

We will not get so lucky in the coming season. The Buccaneers may have (somewhat questionably to my mind) improved marginally - mostly we just stood pat. While the teams around us seem to have taken some significant steps to improvement. We did not leverage the stability of the organization, defense, and coaching staff by augmenting additional offensive playmakers - in my very humble opinion.

It is frustrating to me to watch it happen when we could have improved. I am not convinced Berrian, Stallworth, Johnson 1) weren't upgrades preparing for breakout seasons 2) did not want to come to Tampa.

I believe we (Bruce Allen) felt he was doing his part to be responsible in holding down the insanity of salary increases for what he considered marginal talent.

You can do that, or you can win superbowls, you cannot do both. (i.e. did Randy Moss look like a crazy deal or did it look like a good deal? If FA's sign on at reduced pricing - they believe in the proximity of your program and are willing to trade cash for jewelry - lets call it a vote of confidence. If FA's sign elsewhere after visiting you, that can also be considered a vote of confidence, or lack thereof...).

I think we will be close defensively but we will be unable to consistently move the ball offensively. I am frustrated because there are/were options and yet the Bucs refused to look into them. We are buidling slowly, cautiously, and safely. That means longterm. Because by not taking ANY offensive risks you either think you're very close (and if they think that I don't know what part of our offense gives them that hope) or the organization DOES NOT believe that what it has in offensive personell will be competitive in the short term, so it will serve no purpose to bring in risks.

Unfortunately the organization wants to maximize profits without committing to the fan base that they think they're superbowl ready. They have raised ticket prices, again.

Be straight with your fans and you will gain your fans trust. I am not seeing moves that show they believe in themselves, yet they are asking their fans to have and keep the faith.

Show me, don't tell me.

Right now, they're telling me.

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Uncle Stan

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« #107 : May 15, 2008, 03:17:38 PM »

I think Lucas needs a long look. Was somewhat impressed with what little I saw of him last year.

In fact, I liked him better than Warren was when he played.

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« #108 : May 15, 2008, 03:20:46 PM »

Why would you pay a #2 WR #1 money?

Smart teams don't and that's why Berrian, Johnson and Stallworth aren't here.


And just because the cap may or may not be good in the near future, it doesn't mean trees will sprout from the earth and shed money.

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The White Tiger

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« #109 : May 15, 2008, 03:27:02 PM »

Nor will championship talent sprint from 4th, 5th, and 6th round draft picks - drafted in the 1st, 2nd and 3rd rounds.

Superbowls will not be won with FA's signings at skill positions that no one has heard of, or better yet - NOT signing folks won't gain you championships either.

Yours is a moot point. Smart teams identify talent and then pay the market price, when they need to in order to win.

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« #110 : May 15, 2008, 03:36:40 PM »

Why would you pay a #2 WR #1 money?

Smart teams don't and that's why Berrian, Johnson and Stallworth aren't here.


And just because the cap may or may not be good in the near future, it doesn't mean trees will sprout from the earth and shed money.
FWIW Bryant Johnson signed a 1 year $2 million deal.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

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« #111 : May 15, 2008, 03:38:33 PM »

Depends on what your smart team's goal is.

Win championships or run a profitable business.

You've identified the talent, their asking price is quite a bit higher than what you deem them worth - so there's not reason to break the bank just because someone else is willing to. Unless that one player is the difference between championship and no championship - and not one of the FAs fits that bill.

The teams that are perennial winners are the ones that scout talent, not overspend on it.



And since Bryant got far less than he expected, logic would tell you he didn't exactly blow the doors off any front offices he met with.

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alldaway

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« #112 : May 15, 2008, 03:45:45 PM »

Quote
The teams that are perennial winners are the ones that scout talent, not overspend on it

Bucs recent draft record up to this point has been a mixed bag no?

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« #113 : May 15, 2008, 03:48:26 PM »

I didn't say the Bucs are the best talent scouts, they definitely need to improve.

But thankfully they've got enough sense not to overspend on every guy hitting FA who was a great system player or had one above average season and is looking for rake in the cash.

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The White Tiger

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« #114 : May 15, 2008, 03:56:53 PM »

I submit that could be the case. I submit exhibit "A" Hugh Culverhouse - the man in the orange jacket. He had folks indentify a lot of talent over the years. SOme actually were drafted by us (although whether Hugh actually intended for those guys to play here is another story...).

BTW welcome to Tampa, you know the place that invented that NFL byline: "Don't make freinds with my money..." previous regime? Sure - but when did you think the Glazers became freinds rather than business men?

Hold to task or reap the rewards - I watched us get ahead and get by with very little investment. I was told that we were going to be players in the FA market. I see very little done - and I see that they feel they made progress with very little investment so I am concerned - that a spurious conclusion was drawn from last years results. That conclusion is - you can get something for nothing....

And the resulting strategy of "let it ride..." is a different kind of gamble. One I'm not inclined to believe is anything more than playing not to lose, not playing to win.

I think we are limiting Gruden's playbook and personell packages and placing it all on the defense and a FA merc at QB.

And I didn't see ANYONE infer that we should go after ALL the WR's in free agency this year. I just think most of us would have been more comfortable with ONE of the better names. We waited till there were slim pickings and one that couldn't leverage a better deal because he either wasn't bright enough or his image was a little too tarnished for those other teams - and we went and got that[ guy. Well, no one can say we don't have a system. Tie will reveal if it was the right one.

Just like the draft we went safe, and cheap.

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CurtR1995

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« #115 : May 15, 2008, 04:06:33 PM »

I can't imagine Gruden is happy with the status quo and leaving 8 digits of cap room on the sidelines.


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« #116 : May 15, 2008, 04:29:03 PM »

Gruden's also not the one signing any checks to be deducted out of his business' account.


And while I didn't see anyone say we should sign all of the FA WRs, I've seen more than one post saying we need or should have gone after the top 5+ free agents.

The free agents just weren't that good, why's that hard to see?

Randy Moss, ok, that would have been a great addition.

After that, eh. #2 WRs who are going to get paid way too much and under produce just like a plethora of other #2s who have swindled their way into a teams #1 spot.


So yeah, they could have spent a boat load of money bringing in Berrian or Stallworth. Then we all could have sat around during the offseason in 2009 swearing the FO up and down for throwing away so much money on a guy who didn't significantly improve the team.

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« #117 : May 15, 2008, 07:26:06 PM »

The problem is - as has been proven - nobody paid a boatload for Bernard Berrian or Donte Stallworth

Go back to the post where I said barefoot people shouldn't be trying to negotiate the price of shoes. We are barefoot for a reason - No one here is advocating grabbing all 5 FA WR - what we're saying is there were combinations of folks available - 1 or 2. One of which could have been Bryant Johnson and Drew Carter would have been upgrades here - and both were gotten for 1 year deals of $2 mil/year - what was so hard to negotiate there? Come on.

No one wanted to give away Javon Walker cash - that WAS stupid money.

Here's a list of options and analysis: NFL Free Agent WR's.

Price of shoes is relative to the pair you have on.

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ryan24

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« #118 : May 15, 2008, 09:36:29 PM »

I think Lucas needs a long look. Was somewhat impressed with what little I saw of him last year.

In fact, I liked him better than Warren was when he played.

Me too.

Happy and Peppy and Bursting with love.



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« #119 : May 16, 2008, 01:44:50 AM »

Me three.
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